It could go either way, depending on the Commander in Chief, the mission could be stupid and murderous, or it could save people's lives. If the Air Force had shot down the flights going towards the Trade Center, they would have saved more people than they killed. My Grandfather was a pilot in WWII, are you going to ridicule all the young pilots that died fighting fascism, too?
Chances are that your grandfather was conscripted. Don't compare hero's like him who fought against militarised mass-murderers, conscripted, with morons who volunteer for a war they know nothing about under the blinding banner of 'patriotism'. As for the Trade Centre, I'm of the opinion that the usaf were instructed to stay AWAY for the duration. You said it yourself; commanders in chief with their murderous missions. Jaybee.
He volunteered in the Canadian Air Force, and served in England, since the US didn't get involved in the war until later. My point is that the difference between then and now is not the fact that people fly military airplanes, it's the leadership. I happen to agree it's not smart to join the airforce at this time and fight for questionable reasons.
Yeah, totally ignore rational argument. You neo-cons are very good at that. The military is very good at creating leftists. Fuck off.
Ha ha, he doesn't have the conviction of his right-wing rantings. Note that he said, "This WHOLE link". He could just save the page as an html doc and CENSOR our warnings...but deep down, he wants to give his friend ALL the options. He doesn't want to take the flak when the stupid bastard gets vapourised by an Iraqi SAM. Jaybee.
I wasn't referring to you. I did find your first post compelling and it was a good argument. That being said, you also can go fukk yourself with your dungeons & dragon books and your escapist fantasy literature.
Tooting your own horn on an internet message board... you're pathetic. That being said... Looking out for its own interest = stability = the role of a superpower. Iraq is about protecting and expanding US interests, and i think anyone with a pragmatist's eye knows this. The problem is this administration tends to be overly heavy handed and clumsy in their approach. Honestly i wouldnt be half as worried about bush's administration if they were just as power grabbing but with finesse and strategy. I've personally never trusted them to handle the power they have in the same way i would say a kissenger or what have you. But really, fukk politics... somehwere we went off subject. Thanks again for everyones comments, take it easy.
Esoteric-Oh yeah, tell him that he can check "Conscientous Objector" status without it affecting his enlistment. I get fed up with these pansies that join for the benefits, don't check that box because they're afraid they'll be turned down and have to pay for their college education on their own, then get all uppity when they're sent to a hot spot. Talk about your "summer soldiers and sunshine patriots". Even if you don't check C.O., there's no guarantee you'll be sent to a war zone. I put in a top score on my ASVAB with my strongest point being in cryptography and then was told that it didn't matter what I wanted to be, Navy Intelligence already had me claimed. (Damn, I could be doing cool stuff right now if I hadn't wrenched the hell out of my back coming off an upper deck so fast during a fire drill. Lousy CC running where he shouldn't have been...) Hell, even if you do go to a war zone, there's still no guarantee that anything will happen. My brother's friend was within spitting distance of Baghdad during the first Gulf War waiting for orders to go in and blow the crap out of Hussein. Said he got in there quietly and just sat at the camp with choppers waiting. Never got shot at, never had to shoot anyone. My half-brother was Air Force and never left the US. Tell your buddy good luck, good choice.
I will definitely tell him to do that That's good to know. With the way wars are fought nowadays, I doubt he'll see any war zone action in the AF, even as a fighter pilot. Bummer on the back mayn, at least you didn't lose a limb : ). Thanks for the insights.
If you found my post compelling and think it was a good argument, why the "stupid leftists" remark? If you know enough about me to know I like D&D and escapist fantasy literature, surely you know enough to know that I lean left. Regardless, do you think there is nothing to learn from "leftists?"
Pros- 2 hots and a cot Cons- 2 many, way 2 many When your friend raises his hand and swears his oath that's his ass. (Most likely for 8 years, whatever the recruiter says) A recruiter may tell him he will fly jets, do not believe it. He will have no legal recourse when he finds he's loading/unloading cargo in a hotly contested iraqi air strip. There just isn't that many openings for pilot training. If your friend thinks he can serve 2 years become a rockey jockey and get out he's alot dimmer than you think. Recruiters will tell him anything! The have a mission to recruit, with no accountability. For the danger, boredom and hours put in tell your friend to don a McDonalds uniform instead. He will make much more money, choose his friends and home etc. and still have transferable skills when he leaves. (or he could leave when he finds it just isn't for him- good luck telling that to his CO when he wants out of the military lol). Also when he signs his oath he becomes GI (government issue) He relenqishes his constitutional rights he just swore to defend. The UCMJ is not the same by a great long shot. This is starting to feel like a rant. Anyway, I would dissuade him if I was his friend. If he could get into UW he has WAY to much going for him to join the armed services.
ca you not see th real picture? your friend and allothers drawn into ALL wars are seen as MEAT. sacrifical mat to keep the fkers in power going strong when you see that evil war crminal bush driel on about how 'we' are gonna 'smoke em out' and all that crap. o you think HE is gonna get aeven a SPOT of blood on his shrit? do you think his kids will. do you think ANY of the arsehioles runnin things will? yet you imagine you are --what? ...what is you putting your life at risk for? and making you family suffer, your lover if anything happens to you....... dont you see that you are oppressed anyHOW. so what is you fighting for? FREEDOm? you just cannot see the game goin on can you?
You raise a good point, Elite. The recruiters for these things will usually spin the truth and tell you what you want to hear up until you sign on the dotted line. These men and women have a quota to fill for each week/month and some will do anything to fill it. Luckily for me, the Staff Sergeant that dealt with me was either a decent man or the position I wanted needed to be filled. Chances are it was the latter. I have spoken to many serving men and women about joining (former and current) and they each say the best way to go through the recruitment process is to go in with a single track mind. Know what you want to do and research it fully. Then go in adament you're going to get that position and do your best not to waiver. You have to be as stubborn as them at this stage. If your friend wants to become a pilot, make him/her decide on a fall back position in case they do reject that position flat out (i.e. for medical, educational reasons). That way the chances of being railroaded into something mundane will decrease a little.
Lucky guess, I looked at your profile. Didn't know you leaned left. I don't want to debate the stupidity of both leftist and the right in here (and no I'm not content with the status-quo). Start a thread on the politics sub-forum.
A Britons opinnion on Bush, American hegemony - specially from an artists, is highly irrelevant. Go sip your tea and eat your crumpets.
Very true, which is why he will get his engineering degree before attempting to become a fighter pilot. He's thinking about flying lessons also, he will have a better chance that way. By the way, those people injecting their own personal oppinions on american hegemony and what have you. Fukk off. You think you're saying something novel, you're not.
You don't like it? Then YOU fuck off and post on www.army.com. This place is for thinkers, not sheep. Brainless militaristic scum, why do they allow you trash internet access anyway? Jaybee.
Esoteric- When I enlisted, we also had a few who were reservists before going full time. It was a way to test the waters before jumping in and gave them a clear edge over the rest of us for their training for full time. It made it just a refresher course, essentially. You friend can always go reserve, get his necessary degrees out here, then decide if he wants to go full time. There's also the Air National Guard. If he's a little on the fence about joining full time, he could look into these as well. I'm not sure if the benefits package is the same. They may be. The training is the same, after all. You know what's funny, though? The people who say it's a bad idea are the people who have never been in. I'm glad you asked for opinions from people who have actually been there, because most of these PFCs (private fucking civilians) have no clue what it's like and have no authority to speak from. They won't do a damn thing to help the communities they live in, have no concept of being part of something larger than themselves, live in a "me, me, me" world, but will squeal like stuck pigs if they think you're stepping on their rights. Sure, there are other ways to serve your community, and not all of them involve packing a gun. But it sounds like your friend wants to fly those sweet machines that punch holes in the sky. I knew a few "airdales" when I was in, and they told me that once you're up there, you're in another world. There is nothing but you and the sky. Even with a mission breathing hot and heavy down your neck, it's still one of the most beautiful things they said they'd ever experienced, that first supersonic flight. (Even the subsonic ones they described as pretty mind-blowing.)
