View Full Version : problems of Time Travel
Right, forget any debates about the physicalities of time travel, Just say for a moment that it was possible. What would happen?
In our present time, can it be denied that everything that has happened has happened? If you went back in time, your presence in that timeline would alter events no matter how careful you were. Your very existence would change time. These changes would then be present in your own time and you would have memories of them. or would you? During time travel would you disappear from your own time? could you meet your self in the past? or would you cause a shift in everything so that everything is as it was?
Here's another question. Would you find anything in the past? Does the old model that everything is repeating itself over and over work? Everything that was there is now here, if you remove yourself from our time then could you garantee that you would end up anywhere at all?
What about travel into the future?
The future hasn't happened yet, so is there anything there at all?
It can be said that when you arrive in the future, it will have happened. But what about the trousers of time? With an infinite number of futures, which one will you land in? and then how do get back to your own time?
All questions and no answers, but that's what you are faced with when you start to try and mess with time. The truth is beyond us and always will be.
Actually the future is already determine this. You can determine it by calculating patterns. There is certainty in the uncertainty principle and all you have to do is look for it. If you were to travel back in time then the earth at that time you left would be changed only seconds after once your effects were noticed. These would be only the immediate effects. Long term effects could already be recognized because you would know your descent through time although you wouldnt know the immediate effects.
It's pointless to travel to the future though, because, that may be only the prefuture as any differences you may notice you would bring back in order to alter it. But you wouldn't be able to change it. Black holes transport matter through TIME, throughout existance.
If you know how to calculate patterns and basically definitive path in the uncertainty principle then you can know the future and cycles and crap. I'm to lazy to all that stuff now though.
When you travel back in time, you increased the mass of the universe. If you move the earth through time, you will have two earths orbiting the sun.
BTW, have you seen anyone from the future lately? I thought I did, but then she disappeared....:D
09-16-01, 03:08 PM
From what I understand that is what makes the universe have the ability to expand, with a constant increase in mass through such natural occurances like blackholes.
Afterall a blackhole is a star that has collapsed upon itself or that's what we are lead to believe, when it reaches a level where it converts mass to an transfer of energy, it actually sends the energy it transfers back to it's former mass as a star.
(That's what I'm guess)
That would account for how a star can burn for so long (Well glow from friction) and also how sunspots can occur.
Of course I'm going to work on a better way of explaining how I mean, of course it will them be up to people if they think it's the correct way or if an event is fully observed that proves it correct or incorrect.
As for seeing people from the future, Well with a little bit of gizmo technology it's possible to send an image "Back in time", so you could get your collegue in a lab to take a picture and send it, and viola you suddenly have seen someone from the future.
09-21-01, 06:52 PM
Time travel.....interesting..... I personally believe in the theory that there is an infinite number of alternate realities. I think that when time travel takes place it's more like interdimensonal travel. You go back to when the dinos roamed, your actually traveling to another parallel universe that somehow has beenn affected by time differently to appear 65 million years older that we know of. Problem is getting back to your original reality. Even If i did this Or even time traveled lie suggested above, and if i got to the right home, i would feel really ierd for the rest of my life. Kinda like in ummm......Lost in Space the movie. He time travels back before their ship is destroyed. I would feel really wierd.
If we can go back in time or go to another reality, then some one more advanced than us could come to our reality. So far we can not see any teltale signs. Unless these people came in during the Hercules time....with super powers.
09-21-01, 10:53 PM
Tristan, You are particially right, I explained in another post about the use of particular equipment to create parallels, or the ability to create parallels, resides in the ability to transfer information "back in time".
I told a story in the oringal but to shorten it in a different terming:
Today you go to work and quit, You then go to your gizmo that sends a message back to yesterday and tell yourself, to claim a day sick.
Okay, now if you didn't have that message previously to you quitting, and you got a message to quit. Then you have actually now created a parallel, Your timeline now coexists with one where you skived the day off of work and possibly exist with an infinite number of others either excusing themselves from work, getting involved in accidents, demanding payrises, saving cats from trees etc.
The point is here, that at the point of splitting off from your original path (hearing the message) you would feel nausia and possibly an increase or decrease in quanta.
(I think a topic I've been discussioning mentions the danger of what I called a wave function collapse, of course in the scientific world it probably has a different meaning from how I mean. What I mean is that when you split, your body is now changing to two different energy levels and electron positions. Like your arm is in a different position on each one, but where the differences overlay you can feel some discomfort because of the quanta change.
Since in space a larger mass dictates where a higher gravity is, when you have a two parallel split and one parallel has a higher atomic gravity than the other for a particular position within the universal position, then the energy can slip from the weaker gravity parallel position to the stronger parallel position, to make it a higher to full quanta.)
Originally when I looked at the method of sending information back, I realised that you actually have the ability to incriment the whole timeline back in relationship to a parallel, so you could have the same timeline existing all at the same time.
this is the basis of wormhole studies, although a true wormhole is just that small piece of information flying back to tell you to take that day off of work.
As to getting back to our reality, well since the only thing that would keep us from these other times is:
a) The frequency
b) The postion
c) The technology
I would speculate we could find our time through our broadcasts (television, radio and other frequencies that are man made)
Of course this means that the future is an extrememly noisy place (that includes the present) the past would have more clarity.
If you were interact though with anyone on the planet in the past, who would it be and why? and would you try to change history, because it wouldn't change anything here, unless you were crafty, like hiding something that nobody knows about somewhere etc)
ugh, its getting real ugly in here......
but i prefer to dislike the classical configuration spaces
Iam a barbourist, and consequently feel that the past present and future do not exist because the universe is timeless, and time is inherant in time capsules etc.
but, i am open to listening(obviously). However, the space time i dislike. And i can't put a finger on why.......
moosey feeling like mince pies (xmas soon)
Ok, Moose. Please explain this idea that the universe is timeless. Do you think it is finite? I'm intrigued as to what you mean.
There is a big article in Discover magazine about how Universe is Timeless...
10-21-01, 01:35 PM
If moose believes that the universe is timeless, then how could he believe it is finite??
that was you question, in essence anyway..
maybe I am off the mark, but how could something be timeless and finite at the same time??
It is finite only if you have a limited number of frames (that is you can count them, no matter how large). Timeless become it is all in the frames. A video tape hold the movie in a lot of frames, it does not have its own little time system running all the time....but the observer experiences as time in the movie.
10-21-01, 04:18 PM
You could try and say the universe is timeless, but time is noticably measured especially when the topic of Spacetime crops up (I sometimes write Timespace)
Time is usually measure in that instance by light, and light (or frequencies of the spectrum) can be distorted by gravity, or heat, meeting mass etc. The only way a universe could become timeless is iff you could suck out all energy and not even leave the zero-point energy background. Of course then, nothing would exist to decay so then you could have your infinite timeless period, but nobody would be there to notice it.
Originally posted by Tristan
I personally believe in the theory that there is an infinite number of alternate realities
i think you"re right Tris,if someone goes back in time and manages somehow to alter the past in a major way would lead to another rabbit hole with newly advancing parallel universe and may head somewhere else.that was the idea given by prof Kaku in hyper space concept
Folks talk as if time travel is the really cool thing to do.
Consider that in String Theory, to name one curent theory of reality, there are 11 or 13 dimensions -- with time merely being the 4th one.
Time travel is a reality-challenging concept that is several dimensions short of frontier thinking.
Originally posted by Mr. G
Consider that in String Theory.
By that do you mean cosmic string theory?
It is fun to talk....dont you think?...since we have a hardtime thinking in 5 - dimensions let alone 11 or 12.
10-25-01, 04:17 PM
I found this site which goes into detail on the subject of dimensions:
I know I have on occasion (and other posts) tried to explain about dimensions over 4 just being the same as the four but incorporating a fold and placing your perspective into a Multiworlds state, but nobodies really paid any attention
back to the question of altering the past through time travel...what first comes to my mind is the "grandmother paradox" it is rather difficult to describe, but i will try my best though i am sure many of you are already familiar with the concept. One may pose the question "what if you went back in time and killed your grandmother before she gave birth to your mother?" the problem this would create would be that if you have killed your grandmother, then your mother would have never been born, and going further yet- you never would have been born. yet, if you were never born you couldn't possibly have gone back in time and be able to kill your grandmother. excuse me for being vague, but i am having difficulty clearly explaining the theory. just a little something to think about. ;)
11-21-01, 04:45 AM
Are you okay man? Weeeeeeee......
Who would want to shoot the Grandma, who would want to go back in time??
THE TWILITE ZONE FOR YOU............wwweeeeeeee
I think you have jumped to your own conclusions and skinned your Knee!
i think that because u have killed your gran in the past it wouldent ulter the futcher as like that past the fucher has already happend, what u would have to do is go into the futcher and kill ur urself, then when that point in time that u were born in would reach that time, u would b killed.
this is in no way a sintific thought. feel free to decagre.and apart from the constand spelling mistakes i think would b a good thought?
12-06-01, 12:59 PM
If time travel is possible, why have we never encountered any of the travellers?
Would we even recognise a time traveler or accept them as a regualr person or a part of our past rather than someone who is interfering in a time that is not their own?
Some would even argue that we have time travelers among us now. A person may say that some of today's astronauts are infact time travelers (on a very small scale of time). When they have orbited at high speeds for x amount of days, their body clocks have been slightly altered (in terms of nanoseconds or even fractions of nanoseconds) so that they have actually aged more slowly than a person who exists on earth at the same time that they are existing at a rapid speed in space. Now you may say that this is not truly time travel, but also realize that we have to start somewhere.
12-19-01, 12:53 AM
Time travel? For real?
Ahhh... yes... weekends in the Jurassic...
...vacationing in the Cretaceous...
And to top it off... honeymooning at the Big Bang!
Oh Yeah Baby!!! :D
12-19-01, 05:41 AM
Time travel gives rise to many paradox!
If I go back and kill myself, so WHAT???:rolleyes:
However, there are ways to resolve the problems but I just do not recall them at the moment. I will look them up later!
:) :) :)
THE FIRST STEP IS TRAVELING WITH OUR MIND.ALSO WHETHER WE EXCEED THE SPEED OF LIGHT WE WILL TRAVEL TO THE PAST BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE EMBRACE NEGATIVITY DONT YOU THINK?
ONE QUESTION : DOES FUTURE EXIST?:eek: :confused:
12-20-01, 09:40 AM
Move back in time means travel in the negative direction of time, but what does this mean?
Maybe past, present and future co-exists and interact with each other!:rolleyes:
12-20-01, 09:41 AM
Move back in time means travel in the negative direction of time, but what does this mean?:)
Maybe past, present and future co-exists and interact with each other!:rolleyes:
THE PAST EXISTS ONLY IN THE ARTIFACTS THAT SURVIVE INTO THE FUTURE ...
THE FUTURE HAS YET TO OCCUR, BUT ONCE IT DOES, IT IMMEDIATELY
BECOMES THE PAST.
NOTE: Reply in kind ... Either you are hard of hearing or have poor eyesight.
TAKE CARE ;)
YOU THINK THE FUTURE DOES EXIST IN THE UNIVERSE???
But if we took as an example this computer it was made in the past and right now it is with me in the present.Maybe the future is just what we think is going to happen in other present that we call future.
12-21-01, 12:00 AM
Maybe it is just like what some scientists or what ever have said:
It is just like in a loop with past, present and future together!:rolleyes:
YES PROBABLY, ITS LIKE THAT . DONT YOU THINK THE FUTURE LIES IN THE PRESENT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT IT?
Nice to see you over here as well. Small world ain't it.
12-21-01, 02:34 PM
Nice to see you too! Yeah, small world.
Good forum here. Great format. Runs well. Easy to use.
You gotta like it!
Keep 'em dazzled!
12-21-01, 04:56 PM
Has anyone been paying attention to this other archived thread pertaining to Time~Travel related discussions?
it currently contains 6 pages of discussions to this topic for those whom may be interested to know.
T12 of TAP-TEN
TAP-TEN MAGI~SYSTEMS International Associated Networks
First the Aussies, now the Limeys!
Where are the Native Americans to protect us?
Oh, that's right, they're still pissed with us for occupying their land.
Oh well ... Welcome all ... and enjoy!
Take care. ;)
12-23-01, 03:18 AM
What a forum!;)
01-09-02, 04:19 AM
I see a dark sail on the horizon
Set under a black cloud that hides the sun
Any space skating we're gonna do is in the belly of a Hypocratus Disection Frigate. And they only use anesthetic for their swollen larynxi from laughing at our endless screaming.
01-28-09, 08:24 PM
Time travel; it either can be achieved, or not - there's no 'sort-of' about it. The larger issue really, is DOES TIME REALLY EXIST as we have been taught?
Our sense of 'time' is really nothing more than a name given to our witnessing events in a 'linear' way. TIME (according to the greatest thinkers and physicists) does not really exist in an absolute verifiable way, but is instead a subjective choice of perception that we make from an early age. Mystics and avatars have hinted that upon meditating their minds to stillness and eventual enlightenment that everything that will happen already has happened and that there is no linear progression of time outside of our habitual thinking it to be so.
If this is true, there is nothing necessary or missing from ourselves except for the realization that there is nothing we need to find, attain, or become beyond what we already are. Such an overwhelming truth would be more than most of us could handle, thus the 'agreement' we've made to participate in this 'linear' reality (spiritual pre-school) as long as it takes for us to wake up to what is.
The idea of going either backwards or forward through a reality that is not truly real is preposterous and full of ego. What would the purpose be of such a journey? Furthermore, if we truly could travel to a distant 'event' or possible future event, our witnessing of such would indeed change that reality, and if we could change such things it would no longer be the 'past' but another present, or a new future that would be opposed to the 'future' that would have presented itself before our journey. Which 'future' would be 'real' and which one would become obsolete? If such travel were possible and one could 'alter' past or future events, future warriors would be running rampant throughout history 'altering' events to suit their political whims. One day we would awaken to a 'reality' that could involve the victory of Nazi Germany and the subsequent world that would entail, the next day we could wake up to the reality that we are now being bred captively as a food source for dinosaurs that did not die out. Time travel through a 'changeable' time-environment would be constantly changing and re-changing, voiding the idea of a true point of reference (past) that was stable. If time travel were possible as many movies have tried to claim it is, nothing would stay the same for long and we would be constantly on the verge of massive upheavals that would feel like a nightmare we could not awaken from.
What I believe is more likely is that time is not objectively real, but a subjective experience that can be 'altered' (within our own minds) by our choice or manipulated by outside forces. As postulated by mathemeticians, there MUST be other dimensions, realities and worlds that occupy the same 'time' and space as ours. Rather than travel in a linear fashion through time, it would be thus only possible to 'shift' between these alternate realities either willfully or accidentally so that the observer may mistake an alternate dimension as his 'home' dimension and assume he has traveled to another time/place, instead of sideways, into another dimension entirely. I believe all of us have seen these other worlds during sleep and possibly through mind-altering induced trances. (Of course, meditation offers another way without the chemical side-effects.) The beings in these worlds we've glimpsed would be as 'real' as you or I, and would probably be bound to the same thought-limitations from their upbringings, just as most of us are in this 'world'.
If this theory is true and everything that has happened already has and we are already realized fully and completely (as the Buddha realized), then all things, all power, all potential, and all creation is already before us, around us and within us, and we already are complete in all possible ways.
A heavy idea, I know, but something tells me it's the truth.
How about moving to another space-time distinct to our own say a space-time that is 90 degrees out of phase where you can move back to any point in our time. Or you can invent a device that changes the time phase of this one? If electricity which is EMF has phases to each other, why not time? Just a thought....
01-28-09, 09:41 PM
My previous thoughts in this thread are somewhat different to now. That's because I've had some years to ponder over it.
My understanding now is something that even Hawking has mentioned, the proposal that we aren't just looking at multiple potential futures but also multiple potential pasts (Something my past comments didn't reflect). This basically means that ever given instance is potentially a completely seperate Universe.
This make's more sense when you take into context a simple analogy involving people and there memories. I've had it occur a couple of times with people and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, however throughout your own life you are your own observer, you record your own understanding of what history is. When an event pans out, you see it for the truth and when someone else tells you this memorable event was different in some way it will automatically ring false.
Now you can argue that one of you is deluded, that one has perhaps a memory that has somehow diverged from the real memory, perhaps through the creation of bragged anecdotes that are like "Polymorphic Whispers".
However what is more likely, at least in theory is that perhaps both people observed true realities, it's just when dealing as observers within planes of a multiworlds universe that the disagreement about what happened occurs.
To summarize, I'm saying that two people can see two different outcomes to the same past event from two seperate universes while being in the same "multiverse".
As for people querying as to why would people time travel and placing it on ego... Actually there is alot more to it. For instance What created the universe in which we exist? (Theory would suggest the universe itself is a grandfather paradox) along with some rather interesting methods to accumilate a whole fountain of knowledge.
I wonder if one can dream about your otherself in a parallel universe and you are quantum entangled in such a way that you can dream the other activities in those places. It has happened to me many times. Different possible cars, house, products etc....but very alike.
01-29-09, 10:14 AM
All knowledge, all possibilities and all creation are one and through awareness we are inseparable with creation. Therefore, all attempts to gather, or learn or discover/find anything would be from a limited awareness that has separated itself from it's true source, or reality. The problem is that we are born in a state that is much closer to this core awareness and are taught to ignore it and become separate entities. If we were not trained into becomming separate individuals and would be encouraged to expand that gift of awareness babies begin with, we would allow the realization of what we are to manifest much sooner. Striving towards all things 'outside' of oneself is propagated by a 'self' that is separate from what it seeks, which is also called (in the west) as an 'ego'. Until the ego is surrendered and no longer allowed to continue it's deception upon our awareness, one cannot reintegrate into full realization. Once the ego is banished from awareness, all mysteries become known.