a few times throughout american history, the government has enacted a draft to bolster their military numbers. would you serve, if drafted for our wars tomorrow?

a few times throughout american history, the government has enacted a draft to bolster their military numbers. would you serve, if drafted for our wars tomorrow?
I would go, even though I'm too old to be drafted. In fact, I did my time in the military between ages 18-21.

This is a difficult question for me, as simple as it seems. My family has served this Country since before the Revolutionary War. I love my Country and all the principles upon which it was founded. I would serve without question, on American soil, to defend and protect. But I would not go as fodder to the ME.

i am the same, dreama.
i would come home to america without being drafted, if there was a foreign invader. i would not, however, fight a war on foreign soil.

i am the same, dreama.
i would come home to america without being drafted, if there was a foreign invader. i would not, however, fight a war on foreign soil.
Under ANY conditions??

well, im fairly reasonable.
for example, if china went on a rampage, destroying all of asia (for example)... i would probably go, but it would depend on the reasons for u.s. involvement.
but under MOST conditions, no i would not go.

I'm 37, so thank God, nobody will be drafting me, but I WILL do my part nonetheless.

I'll pass on the wealth of my knowledge of the system so that other young(er) guys can beat the draft.

Jaybee.

Draft? Depends. I think national service is a good idea, build discipline, teamwork, etc. But I don't think deploying national servicemen in war zones is a good idea. Using national service to maintain manpower levels while professional soldiers go into the line of fire is a better option.

I wouldn't personally want to be used a pawn by a government I didn't elect. I wouldn't want to go and kill whoever some suit told me to. If you choose to abdicate your political will to theirs, and become a professional soldier, that's a different matter.

Now, if my nation was really under threat (not some phantom menace bullshit), or there was a genocidal maniac committing large scale atrocities, I would join up.

But the army is used too often for dubious purposes, and not deployed where there is true humanitarian need. We pulled out of Rwanda, letting some 800,000 people die in 100 days, but then our govts justify invading Iraq in really spurious grounds.

So, given the current state of affairs, no, I'd not serve if drafted (although that's not been mooted in the UK).

national service conditions young people to feelit is justified to KILL. why do people always associate discipline wth becomig part of the military industrial complex killing machine?.....there are actually other ways to acquire responsible living....?

ALL war is wrong, and ismanufactured by the peple in power you seem to trust. itis horror and evil. and it'd be better you, and family if you haveone, get your arses in a neutral zone if trouble kicks off

national service conditions young people to feelit is justified to KILL.

Well, under some circumstances, like preventing your homeland from being invaded, or preventing the mass killing of 800,000 Rwandans, killings is justified, don't you think? If the people bent on committing these acts won't be reasoned with, and mean others harm, what's the alternative?



why do people always associate discipline wth becomig part of the military industrial complex killing machine?

Because being handed a loaded firearm, and only using for the right reasons does take a lot of discipline. But like I said, I have no issue with National Service, if draftees don't see active service. If they are drafted to fight a war, well, that is plain wrong.


.....there are actually other ways to acquire responsible living....?

Sure, but that's not what this discussion is about.


ALL war is wrong, and ismanufactured by the peple in power you seem to trust. itis horror and evil. and it'd be better you, and family if you haveone, get your arses in a neutral zone if trouble kicks off

I agree with you, but sometimes, others, with guns and an intention of using them, don't. Then we have to make war, because others make it on us. I never want to be the initiator, which is why I disgree with the draft, on the whole, but I will rise to a threat if needed. Surely, everyone would do the latter?

Well, under some circumstances, like preventing your homeland from being invaded,

Depends who's doing the invading. Proven murderers? Yes, but it also depends on who's doing the 'preventing'. The system, as it stands, is best; we have people WILLING to murder defending us. We're setting wannabe killers against killers, and each time a war happens, natural selection takes its course. Only in Iraq, our government is setting those wannabe murderers against civilian targets.

I object to the theory of obligating civilians to enlist; I object to the purpose to which the armed forces of the west are currently being used, and object to the western military presence in the middle east, both pre and post 9-11.


or preventing the mass killing of 800,000 Rwandans, killings is justified, don't you think?

Thorny issue. The massacres were part of a civil war; it's easy (and legitimate) to respond to a clear and present danger, but reports of the killings were several weeks after they actually happened, and even then, they conflicted amongst themselves. Neither present, nor clear; had they been either, let alone both, I'm sure that, national borders be damned, the killings would have been stopped.

I'll concede this; AS a pacifist, it IS right and proper to use all means necessary, up to and including terminal force, to STOP ONGOING massacres.

Iraq, however, is a LONG way from the extremes of Rwanda.



I agree with you, but sometimes, others, with guns and an intention of using them, don't. Then we have to make war, because others make it on us. I never want to be the initiator, which is why I disgree with the draft, on the whole, but I will rise to a threat if needed. Surely, everyone would do the latter?

Not me. I wouldn't be stupid enough to put myself on a front line. Plenty of dickheads willing to do that for me.


Jaybee.

Tomorrow? No way! I would burn my draft card immediately, and encourage others to do so, especially young people. I also object to the tactics used by military recruiters.

i have a cousin that just enlisted in the army. :(

Tomorrow? No way! I would burn my draft card immediately, and encourage others to do so, especially young people. I also object to the tactics used by military recruiters.

Then you'll be glad to hear this...back 20 years ago I was still in FE College, there was a poster in the Student Room titled, "Join the Army, and get away from it all!

Underneath was a picture of a graveyard.

:)


Jaybee.

I don't object to having a military, or joining and participating in general, if the commander in chief was a rational person, and the conflict was justified, but I'm not going to fight for corporate interests.

Yeah it is only cool if we fight for oil in Yugoslavia, or hire terrorist groups to do our dirty work in Iraq.

ALL war is wrong, and ismanufactured by the peple in power you seem to trust. itis horror and evil. and it'd be better you, and family if you haveone, get your arses in a neutral zone if trouble kicks off
Absurd. ALL WAR IS WRONG? Was it wrong to stop the NAZI's? Is it wrong to fight against tyranny, oppression, and murder? Pacifism gives licence to anyone willing to resort to violence.

As far as the poll goes, sure I'd go. We will not see a draft unless there is a dire emergency, so all you listing various qualifications might just as well say yes. A draft just doesn't make sence politically unless you're in a situation where everyone would pretty much sign up anyway. No draft means no big demonstrations on college campasses. It takes the energy and urgency out of any protest against military action since ALL the soldiers are volunteers.

We will not see a draft in any situation short of world war three.

Absurd. ALL WAR IS WRONG? Was it wrong to stop the NAZI's? Is it wrong to fight against tyranny, oppression, and murder? Pacifism gives licence to anyone willing to resort to violence.


No no, we pacifists are smart enough to let the aggressive elements die out by killing each other.

It's a tidy arrangement; you die, we sip Espresso.

:)


Jaybee.

They ask and I will go without complaint. Here or overseas, it makes no difference.
Its one cost I woud be obligated to pay just for the right to live here under the protection and support of my government.
If I didn't want to have the risk of paying it, I wouldn't be living here.

Yeah it is only cool if we fight for oil in Yugoslavia, or hire terrorist groups to do our dirty work in Iraq.
I don't object to fighting for oil, as long as you don't lie about it, and say it's about nuclear weapons strapped to a remote control cessna-that-can-get-here-in-5-seconds-andifwedon'tfighthemovertherewehavetofightthemover here.

I don't object to getting terrorists to do our dirty work, we did that in Afghanistan. Assassination is much easier than invasion.

They ask and I will go without complaint. Here or overseas, it makes no difference.
Its one cost I woud be obligated to pay just for the right to live here under the protection and support of my government.
If I didn't want to have the risk of paying it, I wouldn't be living here.

you can still be drafted if you live in a foreign nation.
i am still eligible for the usa draft, even though i live in belgium.
i asked.

I don't object to fighting for oil, as long as you don't lie about it, and say it's about nuclear weapons strapped to a remote control cessna-that-can-get-here-in-5-seconds-andifwedon'tfighthemovertherewehavetofightthemover here.

I don't object to getting terrorists to do our dirty work, we did that in Afghanistan. Assassination is much easier than invasion.

Clinton wasn't very truthful in his reasons for going to war. He lied pretty bad about how long our troops were going to be in Yugoslavia.

Then again this current war isn't about oil, but funny retards love to try and tote that line around. This war had as much to do with oil as the one in Yugoslavia, though in neither war was oil one of the key concerns.

Then again both wars also had about as much to do with 'liberation' or 'democracy' as the other.

Now Afghanistan, another issue, is/was mostly about oil.

Though what is cute about your last statement is that you show support for state sponsored terrorism, all in the name of, or at least the hyped up media name for it, combating state sponsored terrorism...

angrybellsprout:
you have a thread called "no war for oil!" or something like that, where you insinuate that the yugoslav war was for oil.
backing yourself up into a corner now?

Terrorism is a scary word for what other people do, of course, our violence is something completely different.

If a conflict has compelling reasons, there would be no need for a draft, since it would become popular to sign up. Hell, my grandfather, a New Yorker, signed up to serve the British during WWII as a supply pilot because the Americans hadn't become involved yet.

If I was drafted to fight another man's war in some other country, I wouldn't go.

If I was drafted to defend my homeland, I wouldn't even have to be drafted as I'd be at my local base in a heartbeat with rifle in hand all ready to go.

- N

I don't think that anyone should be forced to terminate the existance of other human beings. It seems to me that a draft sort of goes against all that the United States prides itself on. All the freedom and liberty goes out the window when your government has given you a choice to kill and or be killed or possibly go to jail. In fact that sounds a might Communist to arrest people who believe differently than those in power. If people don't believe the war is just or don't believe in violence it is dishonerable in their cases to fight it. The military should always be a choice and not a requirement.

you can still be drafted if you live in a foreign nation.
i am still eligible for the usa draft, even though i live in belgium.
i asked.
Did you also cancel US citizenship?

Did you also cancel US citizenship?

What a stupid question.


Jaybee

Did you also cancel US citizenship?
hell no.
i am proud to be american, and i always will be.
like i said, if there was a foreign invader, i would be the first one in my city throwing firebombs at the crazy dolts trying to take what is OURS.

the only way i would renounce american citizenship, is if something happened to change what america was, fundamentally.

Well, under some circumstances, like preventing your homeland from being invaded, or preventing the mass killing of 800,000 Rwandans, killings is justified, don't you think? If the people bent on committing these acts won't be reasoned with, and mean others harm, what's the alternative?

me))))))NOT doing war. seeing thru the game of it. see that the 'other side' also feels justified. they aren't some othe entity but hmans like yerself, as ignoant as youself if they want war. lso, much more, see how powers that be create the conditions for war. study THAT, not war



Because being handed a loaded firearm, and only using for the right reasons does take a lot of discipline. But like I said, I have no issue with National Service, if draftees don't see active service. If they are drafted to fight a war, well, that is plain wrong.

me)))national servce is training you to be a killer. it is a death cult. all thetechniques used are to make you into akilling robot!



Sure, but that's not what this discussion is about.

me))))))reductive as usualy ey phlo?



I agree with you, but sometimes, others, with guns and an intention of using them, don't. Then we have to make war, because others make it on us. I never want to be the initiator, which is why I disgree with the draft, on the whole, but I will rise to a threat if needed. Surely, everyone would do the latter?

but you are totally oblivious to the PROPAGANDA behind war. you see it all in simplistic terms. naive

Absurd. ALL WAR IS WRONG? Was it wrong to stop the NAZI's? Is it wrong to fight against tyranny, oppression, and murder? Pacifism gives licence to anyone willing to resort to violence.

me)))))))are we free of tyranny, oppression and murder?even after millenia of fukin wars after war, andlayered wars and world wars??....no, right? so wheres this shit gonna end. you know now the weapons are getting more and more irreversibly for both Planet and our gentic health etc. so where and when andhow are we gonna wake up to this???
typically nazism israised. well dude all of that 'we defeated nazism' is propaganda. actually yor precious U.S you wanna defend wit your and your childrens lives FUNDEDboth communisim AND nazism, and helped many nazis come to U.S so as to share ther gruesome knowledge--checkout 'Operation Paperclip'
So what imean is is that nazism/fascism has never HONE no fukin where. so what are you talkin and fightin about?

As far as the poll goes, sure I'd go. We will not see a draft unless there is a dire emergency, so all you listing various qualifications might just as well say yes. A draft just doesn't make sence politically unless you're in a situation where everyone would pretty much sign up anyway. No draft means no big demonstrations on college campasses. It takes the energy and urgency out of any protest against military action since ALL the soldiers are volunteers.

We will not see a draft in any situation short of world war three.
world war three? haveyou any idea what a world war 3 would be like? i cannot for a moment understand where you lot come from. you livein an entirly nother universe, called noddyland, or actionmanland

i SHUDDER!!!!!!!!

This is not really a yes or no question. If it were a just war ["just" to me] then yes. If it calls for what we are presently doing then no. Of course I'm too old to be drafted so the question is mute. [moot - thank you OH GREAT SPELLER OF WORDS!]

They ask and I will go without complaint. Here or overseas, it makes no difference.
Its one cost I woud be obligated to pay just for the right to live here under the protection and support of my government.
If I didn't want to have the risk of paying it, I wouldn't be living here.

I admire your conviction. Would you have to be behind the reasons for the war or just sign and not really care - just because you were told? Would you be willing to kill for reasons you were against just because you were told too?

Of course I'm too old to be drafted so the question is mute.

That's "moot".

Geoff

Honestly, I wish this question was "mute," but unfortunately it's not moot (or mute) for me. I would proudly serve my country if America came under a domestic attack. Although I don't think the Iraq war was totally justified, I would have fought in it too. Why? Good old fashioned patriotism, I suppose. If I am called by my government to kill for the good of America, I'm sure as hell going to do it. Hear that George? Hear that Iran?

Although I don't think the Iraq war was totally justified, I would have fought in it too. Why? Good old fashioned patriotism, I suppose. If I am called by my government to kill for the good of America, I'm sure as hell going to do it. Hear that George? Hear that Iran?

So the Iraqi War was for the Good of America? I thought it was for the Good of the Iraqi People being liberated and all?

How can you say you don't think the war was justified and then say you would have still gone for it? Don't confuse patriotism with blind loyalty. What's good for the adminstration doesn't automatically mean it's good for the country.

No wonder GWB was re-elected..

- N

This is an easy question, most everyone would fight if their country was under attack. However, that kind of war is rare for most countries, and has only happened once in the last 200+ years or so for the U.S. You have to ask yourself if you would be willing to fight to protect another nation from a facist government hell bent on world domination. I could easily justify it by saying the agressor will eventually attack the U.S., so it's in our best interest to fight. But for a war like the current conflict in Iraq, Bush can kiss my ass.

I would simply not go.. I wouldnt need to "dodge. Well, with one exception - if they abolished the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy. As a gay person this is personal!!

I will tell them I'm gay and get booted. :) That's my "out". If you don't want my kind, then I won't go. Simple as that..

a few times throughout american history, the government has enacted a draft to bolster their military numbers. would you serve, if drafted for our wars tomorrow?
Prob'ly not. Not unless my home was directly in danger. I mean, like, if an invading army was just a mile out from Louisville...then I'd join a local militia...but unless it's like that...fuck nah.

i would actually contact the american embassy in belgium and arrange to be taken home to fight a foreign invader.

Heh, I'm just glad that where I live, most of the California coast is lined with hills, cliffs, and forests all over the place. Good for defense. Keep them Chinese tanks away. And the only way up and down this area is the Pacific Coast Highway/101 Freeway and the I-5. Blow them babies up and good luck getting around. It's a mini Switzerland. Gonna have a nice lil dug-in defense. :p

- N

I wouldn't dodge the draft illegally but I would use any legal means not to fight - so maybe that is dodging it?