what religion are you?

i hope this poll is more fair and sorry about the other one

Christian, but as you can tell from my response about the Adam and Eve thread, I border on agnostic.

Oh yeah and I also "believe" in evolution.

The option "Others" is missing...

Oh, and I am an atheist.

satanists are discriminated against once again.

I met one once and he was quite nice.

Well, the old gods from Rome, Greece, Egypt, Babylon and even the nordish gods are missing.
And, also no Satan or Cthulhu as option, and some others believe in Lilith...

Athiest

yes...the option athiest is missing too

the option atheist is not missing and plus that does not count as a religion and i cant edit the poll now cause i forgot to add "other". I thought i finally had a fair poll, but guess not. Stupid me! :P Wait wouldn't spiritual count as other?

Well, then you could also count all teh other religions under spiritual. Then, you could aswell make a poll with the option Believer/unbeliever....

Believer in what? :P
Atheist.

who is dreamwalker? atheist?

who is dreamwalker? atheist?

Who is Dreamwalker? Well, I am me... :p

And as I stated above, I am an atheist.

I am a clear thinker (atheist)

yay im atheist too. :)

So am I

atheists kick ass.

YEC Christian

I can't pick more than one? I'm atheist, Taoist, spiritual, and somewhat Buddhist, sometimes with Christian and Jewish sympathies.

Quite a few atheists in the house, it seems. Where is the faith? Where are the believers?

They died and went to hell. :p

spidergoat,


I can't pick more than one? I'm atheist, Taoist, spiritual, and somewhat Buddhist, sometimes with Christian and Jewish sympathies.

I think you need another category - confused. :D

Nuttyfish,

At a count of 28 votes we seem to have an almost even split between the religious and non-religious.

Quoth the Raven...

I'm a spiritual agnostic that studies all religions. A studying agnostic; ain't that a contradiction and waste of time, heh. I guess sometime in the future my skin will shed and the "a" will be gone.

- N

Quite a few atheists in the house, it seems. Where is the faith? Where are the believers?

Atheism is a faith. It's the absolute conviction there is no god.

yay, non-religion has 57%

Born again. Jesus is my homeboy. It's not a religion, it's a state of being.

atheist [not a religion]
1977- the court ruled that atheism is a religion.

Which court if I may ask? It may vary from country to country.

U.S. Court, sorry I forgot.

What the hell does a U.S. Court have to do with deciding atheism a religion? The only reason I could see it as such would be for some type of organization to claim tax-exempt status. But, any atheistic organization that wanted tax-exempt status by claiming to be a religion are a bunch of morons who shouldn't be allowed to call themselves atheists. I sense a subtle attack by the christian right on this one. Perhaps an attempt to make atheism a religion, then claim evolution a consequence, a precept, of atheism. And then bring up the seperation of church and state thing to get evolution out of schools. Tricky bastards.

Do you have a link to the relevant data of this court decision? Regardless of what this court may have said, they are in no position to make this claim. IMO.

atheism is a religion according to the definition of religion.

"people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the univers and human life"

"a particular institutionalized or personal system of beliefs and practices relating to the divine"

to not believe in a god at all is a BELIEF...that is the basis of an atheistic belief system...a perception, or paradigm or whatever you want to call it, that drives the behavior or practice or that person who is an atheist...and is the foundation for decisions that he/she makes in life.

if religion is a belief system, and atheism is a belief system, then atheism is a religion. who cares what a court says....it's logic...by definition.

agnostic is even a religion, in that it's a belief system that says "i don't know what to believe, and i really don't want to know either, so i'll just do whatever feels good at the moment" right? Or maybe "i'm in the process of seeking the truth, but haven't found it yet, so until I do, i'll just do the best i can".

the fact is that everyone has a belief system of some kind. how can one be void of a belief system? the definition of religion does not say that it has to be institutionalized.

if religion is a belief system, and atheism is a belief system, then atheism is a religion. who cares what a court says....it's logic...by definition.

Not the place for this. There are several atheist vs. religion theads in the religious forum, but I'll throw this in anyway. If religion is a belief system. (I think we can all agree on that.) If atheism is a belief system. (No, it's not. It's a lack of belief. It's not a system. Perhaps there are atheistic organizations here and there, but they are no more prevalent than say a chess club. They are not organized to any large extent. They have no belief structure. They are no religion.)

Now, I have the feeling you might say that there are religious people who don't subscribe to any one church or whatever. Well, if they are christians then they subscribe to the bible. A definite structured system of beliefs. There is no atheist handbook. We are not a religion. And to call us such is merely a ploy to weaken our effectiveness in the eyes of the religious. And, it's a pointless attempt as atheists are not a true threat to religion. We are not organized enough. If we were organized, if we were a religion, oh boy. Watch those churches fall, baby! Maybe someday. *fingers crossed* But, then we'd likely fall prey to meet the new boss same as the old boss. ;)

i'm not talking about going to church. i'm saying that a human being can not be void of beliefs. believing that there is no god is a belief, not a lack of belief. lmao.

the definition of religion does not imply an organization or a handbook or a building or anything but a belief structure...

a religion does not have to be an institution by definition. everyone has a belief structure...it doesn't even have to make logical sense. but it is safe to say that no one can be void of a belief structure. you can have your own "religion"...it doesn't have to be widely accepted or shared, or include you in part of some group. but atheists in fact do form a large group...just because they don't form an organization doesn't mean that they don't exist. hey, what about the aclu? that's an organization? that was a joke...kind of. ha, ha.

believing that there is no god is a belief, not a lack of belief. lmao.

Laugh your ass off all you want and it's not going to change the fact that atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief. The only way that it could be a belief is if all atheists (or at least a large enough group, organized) shared the same type of nonbelief in god. Atheism may be a belief in it's most simple sense, in the individual. But it's not a belief structure, which implies an organized belief system that one may hand to one's descendants, to one's neighbors, to the infidels. It's a religion of one, which is no religion at all.


he definition of religion does not imply an organization or a handbook or a building or anything but a belief structure...

You're talking about spirituality. That's why I mentioned christians and their beliefs being elucidated in the bible. The bible outlines the core of their belief structure. You may not go to a church, or feel that you belong to an organization, but by following the strictures found within this book, you are, whether you like it or not. And if you don't follow the precepts in the bible, then you are not a christian, whether you call yourself one or not.

Everyone has 'beliefs' but not necessarily a belief structure. Not an organized, dictated belief structure. We can make our own beliefs, but in religion you're not allowed to do such a thing. Religion is handed down by god, not made up by each individual.

You mention the ACLU. Are you saying they are a religion? Do they have a holy text which outlines to them exactly how they are expected to live their lives in order to find salvation by this god-thing or whatever they may choose to call it? Don't think so. You can be an organization without being a religion. You can be spiritual without being part of a religion. But, if you follow the precepts of any particular religion then you are in fact a member of that religion. A member of an organized religion with a specific belief structure. You, Lori, are a christian.

Enjoy. :D

i'm not talking about going to church. i'm saying that a human being can not be void of beliefs. believing that there is no god is a belief, not a lack of belief. lmao.There are two types of atheism, weak atheism and strong atheism. Weak atheism is simply a lack of belief in God. Strong atheism asserts that God doesn't exist. The first is a lack of belief, while the second is a belief. Religion is not just a belief system, it is a spiritual belief system. The very definition of atheism is "without theism" which is the opposite of religion.

I'm a god.

So invert...you are saying that your belief system is not a religion simply because it is not written down? Ok then, what are your beliefs?




There now...it's a religion.



Atheism...without theism...is a spiritual belief system...simply because it is a belief that is in regards to spirituality...or spirits. The belief that they do not exist. But just because the belief that is defined is that spirits do not exist, does not mean that the belief system itself is not spiritual, because it is in fact exactly what the belief is in regards to...spiritualism. In other words just because the belief system is based upon the premise that spirits do not exist, does not mean that the belief system itself does not exist, or that it does not define one's "spirituality", as it does in fact define one as not believing to have a spirit, or not believing that spirits exist. In order for atheism to not be a spiritual belief system, it would have to define beliefs that were not in regards to spirits or spirituality...for example, if atheism were to define your beliefs in regards to baseball, or politics, or fashion trends.

And the aclu thing was a joke...I was trying to be funny...kinda. And it was kinda funny.

An atheist can in fact hand down their beliefs to their children, just as any other parent hands down their beliefs to their children. A belief system, in my opinion, does not have to be commonly shared either. Though again, may I point out that atheism is in fact a commonly shared belief system. But I am speaking of a system in regards to the fact that the basic premise that there is a god, or that there is no god, in fact forms the basis of a set of beliefs that an individual may hold to be true. A bunch of if, then statements, if you will. If there is no god, then....as that belief, being extremely fundamental, is also therefore, extremely consequential. In that "if there is no god, then....what I believe about everything else in life", given that basic tenet. Spiritual beliefs, by their very nature become the basis for many other beliefs that we hold true...thereby creating a system of beliefs...or a set of beliefs that are in fact related one to another. Unless of course you are one of those people who don't follow any logic...and claim to believe whatever they want to, at any given moment, or in any given circumstance, to suit their own needs at any particular time, whether it makes sense or not, or is even possible, in relation to their other professed beliefs, scientific fact, laws of nature and physics, or even common sense. After all, some people change their fundamental beliefs every five minutes or so, just in order to appease their own flesh right? And when called out, what do they say? "It doesn't have to make sense, it's just how I feel." And then my brain explodes.

Oh, and yes I am indeed a christian. But I do not participate in organized religion...in fact I abhor organized religion...in a general sense. I wish I didn't, but I just can't help it. As I very apparently do not share beliefs with these people who are involved in organized "christianity", and I'm using that term very loosely, only because "they" do..."they" being those who profess to be christians. But the fact is that actions speak louder than words. And the behavior that I witness many, many times says that the vast majority of these peoplw wouldn't know Jesus if he slapped them upside the head. Which means that they do not in fact believe their own doctrine. The fact is that people take Jesus' name in vain a lot...people who are involved in organized religion. They use him to suit their own needs...needs of the flesh. Which is in fact breaking a commandment. It cracks me up to think that so many people want to believe that taking the lord's name in vain means using it as an explitive. Lmao...oh, the simple minds...yea, ignorance is bliss isn't it? Well, whatever justifies their sin I suppose. So anyway, taking his name in vain like this causes them to in turn witness falsely to him...which indeed is breaking another commandment.

In general, organized religion is commonly used as nothing more than a cheap and dirty subsitute for the real thing. The real thing being born again. Which means that you have a personal relationship with god through christ and via the holy spirit which dwells inside of you. It's a telepathic communication...a spiritual interaction...but indeed, a real relationship. More real, in fact, than any relationship with another human, simply because of the honestly and comprehension of it...it's all encompassing nature.

So here's the deal...now you tell me what's what. I have a personal relationship with god. He talks to me...telepathically. Leads me and guides me through my life using real circumstances and experiences. He teaches me this way...through real experience in my life, and through conversation and revelation regarding these experiences. I don't go to church...and I do not learn these things from the Bible. And to my knowledge, there are very few people, relatively, who are born again, and those people do not have a formal organization. As already stated, organized christianity in no way is an organization of born again people...some are...but most are unfortunately not. So tell me then...am I religious? According to your own definition.

Last I'm saying on this in this thread. This is not the thread for this discussion. Alpha's description of atheism seems good. I don't know about this strong vs. weak stuff. But, why not? Good a description as any. The thing is that I have never been indoctrinated into atheism. It's something that I came to myself. And it's not even a 'thing' that I've come to it. It's absence of the 'thing' that I've moved away from, 'religion', 'god'. I do not feel like I belong to a group. I do not see another atheist on the street and say "yo, wassup bro? God is dead!" And give the secret atheist handshake. We share only one thing in common. Our belief (yes, belief, but belief religion does not make, and beware semantics anyway. Belief in no god/lack of belief in a god. blah.) that there is no god. The details of what this means to us personally is most likely completely and extravagantly different.

Religion as opposed to spirtualism based on the bible. Well, it's true that one can follow the bible without joining a particular religion, but you still have to follow the same precepts. Regardless of your personal decisions in the matter, you will still follow the same basic ideals that these religions you seemingly despise do. The concepts are in the bible. Unless you move away from the bible, you are a christian. Religion. No getting away from it. The thing is, that most religions have lessened the rules of the bible. They pretty much ignore the stuff in the beginning. And concentrate on the latter stuff. So, if you don't belong to a church, just follow the bible. Do you follow leviticus? Deuteronomy? Are you obeying the laws of god? Or do you pick and choose just like the other churches?

You personally? I'd say from what I've read of you and how you describe yourself, you are a combination of three things (more actually, but I'll limit myself here.) First, you are religious because you follow the bible. You are a heretic because you seek to follow it outside of doctrine. You are a touch crazy because of your personal relationship with god.

I wonder if it's a physical abnormality of the brain or emotional trauma? Something that can be cured or if its permanent and untreatable?

That's it. No more on this subject (for me). This thread is not about what religion and atheism is. It's about what religion members of the forum belong to.

Hey invert...god does exist...I know him.

According to medical science...doctors, mri's...I am completely healthy. And according to psychiatric and social definitions...I am completely sane. Except for this ONE thing...that they can't explain. It just twists their little minds. Why? Because they so desperately want to believe that there is no god. And so desperately want to believe that even if there is one, that we would never be expected to actually have a relationship with him or listen to his voice or allow him to counsel us in our everyday life. That's too scary for the average human apparently...way too consequential, huh? Boo!

God is love.

Atheism...without theism...is a spiritual belief system...simply because it is a belief that is in regards to spirituality...or spirits.Get it through your head, atheism is not a religion by definition. If you contest that then you don't get the definition. A-theism: without theism; without religion/belief in God(s).

An atheist can in fact hand down their beliefs to their children, just as any other parent hands down their beliefs to their children.That doesn't make it a religion. You can teach your kids morality, that doesn't make it a religion. You can teach your kids the current theories of science, that doesn't make it a religion.
Religion is a specific type of belief system, of which atheism is not.

Alpha's description of atheism seems good. I don't know about this strong vs. weak stuff.It is a distinction I have seen made that brings clarity. There are atheists who positively believe there is no God, and there are atheists who simply do not believe in God (simple lack of belief). The distinction is often referred to as strong and weak, or positive and negative. I prefer strong vs weak as it seems more accurate, and seems weird to think of mere absence of belief as "negative."

Hey invert...god does exist...I know him.Uh huh.

According to medical science...doctors, mri's...I am completely healthy. And according to psychiatric and social definitions...I am completely sane.Is anyone completely sane?
Would you agree that you cannot hold inconsistent beliefs and still be sane?
What does desperation have to do with it? Nothing.
I've proven God doesn't exist, have a look at the "is atheism the answer?" thread.

He said, "I've proven God doesn't exist."

That was funny.

Did you bother to look at the proof? By all means, try to refute it.

I ticked Christian, because that's how I was raised - but I haven't been to church since last Christmas Eve.

Does it count if you make like the song Walking in Memphis:

...She said, "Tell me, are you a Christian, child?" and I said
"Mam, I am tonight!"

Starthane,

No, that doesn't count.

See what I mean? Most people who go to church are using it for nothing more than a social gathering place. You may as well spend your evening in a country club, or a dinner theater, or a bar for that matter. After all, you would end up doing less damage, in that at least you wouldn't be slapping Jesus' name all over your relatively meaningless activity. Being born again isn't something you do or somewhere you go once or twice a year, or once or twice a week. It's a state of existance 24/7. And it doesn't have anything to do with a building or a man or a book or a song.

I feel bad ripping on organized religion like I do. It's hard for me to reconcile how I feel about it all. I say this because I know that some people who are involved are born again and have a relationship with christ. I can tell. The holy spirit gives you the gift of discernment and I can tell when someone knows him or not. I personally have greatly benefited from the work of some gifted preachers in my life. I have watched them on TBN, and have donated money to the station as well, in gratitude for the work that they have done in spreading the gospel. But just as I've seen some born again preachers on there, I've seen some who aren't. And just because someone's born again, doesn't mean that they are perfect or even close to it. That's why it's all about YOU personally having a relationship with christ...it's all about the individual and your personal journey with him.

I guess what it all comes down to is this. Like anything else in this world, there is good and bad that can come from anything...depending on the intent behind the use of it, or conception of it. There is so much power in the name of Jesus Christ. And so given that power...if his name is used with good intent, the results are really good. But if the name is used with bad intent, the results are really bad. Professing the truth in his name...witnessing and testifying to his power in truth and in love brings salvation and healing and growth and life. But taking his name in vain and witnessing falsely is the most destructive thing a person could ever do...it is murderous. And within organized religion, there are both of these things going on. It's just that from my personal perspective, I have to say that I've seen more of the latter than the former. And that's a damn shame. And it's time for a revolution.

Ok Alpha,

I know God. I have a personal relationship with Him. And I am not speaking metaphorically, but literally. There, that was easy. We have had hours long conversations....he has taught me so many things I wouldn't even know where to begin listing them...he has completely changed me and my life in the best ways...ways that I wouldn't have even imagined were possible...he has answered every single one of my prayers...he has even yelled at me...twice...not being mean, just trying to get my attention...and it did startle me...and he also has a great sense of humor too...which is very comforting to know...he's laughed at me, and I at him. And he loves me as he does everyone...yes you too...and I've felt that love...and it has changed my life...it changes everything...it IS everything. To seek it and find it is the meaning of life....you find the meaning of your life...and it's blowing my mind.

Ask him what I'm thinking of right now as I write this.

I know God. I have a personal relationship with Him. And I am not speaking metaphorically, but literally. There, that was easy. We have had hours long conversations.... ....you find the meaning of your life...and it's blowing my mind.

Have you thought of founding a cult (maybe you already have one)? :) People in direct communication with God are prophets, surely. Does God not want you to spread His word , if he reveals it clearly to your mind?

I mean, if you know God so intimately and unequivocally, you're on the same level as Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Solomon, Elijah and St. John the Baptist.

Starthane,

Being born again is what Jesus preached. He preached it to Nicodemus...remember...the "church person"? Cause Nic was all about the "rules" and the judgement, and the hypocracy, like the religious people still are today. I wonder all the time how it is that these modern day pharisees can read scriptures like that...about how screwed up organized religion was back then, and not realize that they are perpetuating the very same thing today...and for the same reasons.

Dude, EVERYONE in the bible heard from god. People were hearing god's voice all over the place...not just the prophets. And people do today as well. I'm certainly not special...it happens all the time. It happens even if you're not born again. You know what people call your conscious? Well, they only call it that to avoid the realization that god is communicating with them. Since this miracle has happened to me, I have seen god communicate to me through people who have absolutely no idea what's going on and who are not born again. God uses people for his purpose regardless of what their beliefs are or what their will is...whatever it is...he can work around it.

When you're born again...your conscious...that little voice...it gets bigger...and louder...and you hear from it more often. And that is only because you want to. It's a voluntary, willful thing that you pray for. You have to seek, then you find. You have to knock, and then the door will be open. He doesn't come uninvited. And when you're born again, it's like you get a new pair of eyes and ears...and you see and hear everything differently...everything has new meaning...even the same old thing. Its because of the insight of the holy spirit...its council.

Haven't you ever heard people talk about hearing from god before????? It happens all the time.

Why in the hell would I found a cult? I'm not in this to have followers or power or an organization. That's what I just said that I detest remember? And that's your first suggestion? No. What I wish is that everyone could know what I know. That everyone could know god and his love like I do. And guess what? Everyone can. But it's not up to me...it's up to the individual. Are you a seeker? Or not. Do you want the truth? Or not. It's up to you. The only thing that stands in a persons way in having a personal relationship with god is that person's will. Whether or not they sincerely desire to know the truth about god. And that's it.

You know what people call your conscious? Well, they only call it that to avoid the realization that god is communicating with them.That explains it. Pretty much what I expected.
God wouldn't tell you what I was thinking?

Lori,

if the voice of God you claim to hear is what everyone else calls their conscience (those who have one, anyway), then perhaps God is simply an aspect of our psychology, and not a separate, omniscient conscious being in His own right?

You'll note the difference in spelling.

Our conscience is a very fine thing, showing that human nature has an inherent morality about it. I suppose we could have a whole separate debate on whether the conscience is genetically programmed somehow, or entirely derived from learned social values.

I don't mean to offend anyone. But as others have said, it may be that Man makes God in his image rather than the other way around.

man is not perfect, so how could he formulate a perfect god? that would not be in his image.

He/It (God) would reflect only the best aspects of human nature, as an ideal to which we could all aspire. That's why He/It is balanced by the Devil, who embodies the dark side of our psyche.

Humans can probably never attain perfection, but we can imagine it.

Hindu.

I answered "Spiritual" cuz it was the closest thing to "Pantheism (http://www.pantheism.net/)". I was atheist, and I guess I technically am still . . . at least in the Christian sense.

There are an awful lot of atheists up in herre. I guess atheism dominates the Internet. WE RULE! :p Naninani Booboo! Hehe!

I guess atheism dominates the Internet. WE RULE! Naninani Booboo! Hehe!

Hmm . . . I guess I was wrong. Google gives back 3,890,000 results for "christianity", but only 480,000 for "atheism" and 68,600 for "pantheism". Hehe.

Atheist gets 6,290,000 for me.

This sums it up well for me:

"I am an atheist, out and out. It took me a long time to say it. I've been an atheist for years and years, but somehow I felt it was intellectually unrespectable to say that one is an atheist, because it assumed knowledge that one didn't have. Somehow it was better to say one was a humanist or agnostic. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time."
-Isaac Asimov

That's a good quote, hypewaders.

Alpha,


Atheist gets 6,290,000 for me.

Huh?

If there is a supreme power and sentience in the Universe, how can any particular group of humans have the arrogance to presume that they - and they alone - know the true nature of that power? He/She/It, God/Allah/Brahman or Whoever may be so far beyond our understanding that all specific religious interpretations are equally wrong.

Then again, I suppose people need to believe in something.

If there is a supreme power and sentience in the Universe, how can any particular group of humans have the arrogance to presume that they - and they alone - know the true nature of that power? He/She/It, God/Allah/Brahman or Whoever may be so far beyond our understanding that all specific religious interpretations are equally wrong.

Well put.


Then again, I suppose people need to believe in something.

It's a basic psychological need! :D At least I think so.

Muslim.

I am Spritual,

Gods exist, but mainly watch because they can't interfere with the natural evolution of existance.

My Spirit is powerful, me and the few like me in my group are training out physical selves to be able to do more than punch through brick walls.

If the spirit wasn't so powerful, power incorporates strenth of the bond between the physical, and the spiritual.

I you wanna know more, PM me...

J. ^^^