Water as fuel?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by FallingSkyward, May 21, 2006.

  1. FallingSkyward How much is there to know? Registered Senior Member

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    http://www.wimp.com/fuelwater/

    This is the first time I'm hearing anything about this...

    How long do you think it will be until water is used as fuel everywhere? I'm fascinated(and I think I want to buy shares in whatever company this will manifest itself into, heh).

    Unfortunately, it's unlikely it will stem the gas prices this summer, gr.

    Any thoughts? Anymore information?
     
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  3. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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  5. FallingSkyward How much is there to know? Registered Senior Member

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    My apologies to all for the repeat thread.

    Essentially, *you're* an insecure asshole who gives horrible first impressions. And you've won the award for most inane assumption of the day.
     
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  7. valich Registered Senior Member

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    Don't be too rough on the guy. You'll get a lot of bad first impressions on Sciforums. Nevertheless, your intentions are good so don't be discouraged by his last remark. Cheers!
     
  8. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    Our landlord paid the water bill, we just had to pay for everything else. I was wanting to rig up a way to use water for heat.. the only idea I fooled around with was to throw the hose up on the roof of the house, run it down a steep slope and use it to power a turbine that would power make electricity to power a space heater. I never did it.

    My friend had a better idea, just take the used motor oil in the back of my truck and cleanly burn it for heat... I forget what you call those.
     
  9. valich Registered Senior Member

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    H2O can be broken down to harness hydrogen as an excellent source of fuel. There's a lot of research being done on this but I think we have to harness the potential in a way that secures our safety.
     
  10. river-wind Valued Senior Member

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    cleanly burn used motor oil....I can't parse this idea.
     
  11. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    if i remember correctly it takes an enomous amount of energy to extract hydrogen from water.
     
  12. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    I cannot recall exactly how they work, but well built ones are very clean. If done poorly (like just plain burning it) produces a lot of smoke and other crap.

    Here is one to build but for this design it does not recommend motor oil, but rather petro or veggie oil. Getting this stuff is essenially free by the barrel just by asking for it.

    The site that I found a really good one that could burn motor oil too has since gone down... backyardmetalcasting.com

    Or you can buy one that does it... here
     
  13. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    4,089
    Ha! Pretty poor come back, but never mind...
    Apology for the repeat posting accepted. Now, as for my calling you a gullible fool, I think that still stands, unless you can somehow show that you knew that the original subject, this fox video about using water for stuff, was total mince. Have you any idea how to use water as fuel? HAve you any idea how long researchers in 20 countries have been working on fuel cell powered cars using hydrogen? Do you even know how you egt hyrdogen in the first place?
     
  14. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    I mean, I thought you all knew about electrolysis, it should have been tought to you at school. As for HHO, there is no scientific evidence for it that I have ever seen.

    As for "Burns a hole through charcoal!!!"
    I could burn through charcoal with a cigarette lighter.
     
  15. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    I could give the charcoal the Chinese water-torcher and maybe in 3 weeks there would be a hole. Man, these people with their inventions. It has been done already. We have knives for this very reason

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  16. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    Hey, I suppose i Was a bit insulting, but a third thread on similar junk just gets me annoyed. Does nobody get a decent education these days?
     
  17. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    8,989
  18. guthrie paradox generator Registered Senior Member

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    4,089
    Yup, that was me being nice.
    I am a bit stressed right now, for various reasons.
     
  19. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    a car that runs on water is a reality.

    It runs on what is called Aquygen, which is water, or H20, broken down into HHO gas.

    In trials, Aquygen improved gas mileage by as much as 50 percent. That's almost 200 extra miles per tank of gasoline. Klein says an adapter for your car could be on the market sooner than you think. "My guess is probably 2 years to go to the next level," Klein told us.
    Klein says Aquygen's lack of pollutants is on of it's most important qualities and some big names are taking notice. Denny said, "NASA, Daimler Chrysler, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin."
    http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=4939560&Call=Email&Format=HTML
     
  20. Absane Rocket Surgeon Valued Senior Member

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    Off topic, but when I got money I plan to convert my truck to a propane vehicle with the ability to flip a switch to run on gasoline. In theory, I could get 800 miles without changing a tank.
     
  21. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    And what, exactly, is HHO gas? :bugeye:
     
  22. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    your guess is as good as mine.
     
  23. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Water is a catalyst that increases the speed and efficiency of chemical reactions. It is not an energy source.

    Water is the end-product of a wide variety of chemical reactions, including combustion, not the source material.

    Water is one of the most common chemicals on earth precisely because it is the result of so many chemical reactions and biological processes.

    In order to convert water into other compounds or break it down into its component elements, one of these reactions or processes must be run backwards. This is enormously difficult and can only be done with huge inputs of energy.

    Electrolysis is a perfect illustration of this principle. Yes indeed, with 21st-century technology it is rather easy and safe to set up an electric field causing electric current to flow through a volume of water, resulting in breakdown of the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen molecules, which disperse as gas. You can then capture the hydrogen gas and burn it, or condense and supercool it into a liquid and store it for later consumption. But: The energy released by the use of the hydrogen as fuel will always be less than the energy consumed by generating the electricity that created the hydrogen.

    This is all about entropy. All systems devolve toward a state of minimum organization, in which the level of potential energy is uniform. Without disparities in potential, which are the engines of energy conversion, that energy cannot be further converted into any other form.

    Hydrogen and oxygen molecules are at a higher state of organization than water, which is simply another way of saying that they--especially the hydrogen--contain enormous potential energy. That potential energy is released when they are converted into water and becomes heat, pressure, motion, or some other form of work. Organization is decreased, disparities in potential are leveled, and entropy increases.

    Entropy is one of the most fundamental laws of the universe. It does not rest on dimly understood concepts like gravity and the speed of light. It can be grasped intuitively with only the most elementary understanding of the basic principles of math and physics. It can be observed in a microcosm such as the dissipation of waves in a disturbed pan of water.

    All energy-generation schemes based on overcoming entropy are facetious.

    Questions like this would be better posted on one of the Science forums. They would probably be treated with somewhat more respect there.

    And you would get an answer with a bit more scientific rigor than this one.

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