Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin Suppression

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by draqon, Mar 24, 2008.

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Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin limit, inconsistency with general relativity is due to:

  1. cosmic rays have local sources (something closer to us...that we haven't detected)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. heavier nuclei

    0 vote(s)
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  3. ultra-high energy weakly interacting particles (neutrinos)

    50.0%
  4. instrumental error/human error

    0 vote(s)
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  5. a new radical theory: Doubly special relativity

    0 vote(s)
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  6. other

    50.0%
  1. draqon Banned Banned

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    There exists a thing called limit to everything and energy is certainly within this concept's grasp. The so called "Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin Suppression" is the reason why there is such a limit to the energy of cosmic rays. And it seems that the reason for this limit is production of pion particles which than breaks up into lower energy particles. (If I understood that correctly).

    Anyways...with all this going these so called high energy production contradicts the generally now accepted special relativity and particle physics predictions.

    And the reason for such is because the energies received exceed this so called limit of energy from such distance emitters. It seems that either the general relativity theory is wrong or...there is something emitting these energies that we cannot see (black hole?).

    Well...were did these results come from that seem to say otherwise?
    AGASA

    This is the paper of their work: http://euso.riken.go.jp/publication/icrc28_270.pdf

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    Now I ask you what do you believe the inconsistency in the results of AGASA be with the generally accepted limit?
     
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  3. draqon Banned Banned

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  5. draqon Banned Banned

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    dude stop sticking your Aether wave theory everywhere
     
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  7. zephir Banned Banned

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    Nope, the general relativity is quite perfect (at least the postulates of it). But it predicts the gravitational lensing. Which is problem, if we have vacuum full of gravitationally lensing objects, i.e. the virtual particles, photons and neutrinos, because it would mean, the vacuum doesn't behave like quite homogeneous system. And because the short wavelength light isn't able to avoid theses inhomogeneities so easily, like the long wavelength one, we can derive the Lorentz violation even by using of general relativity theory. This is because the general relativity don't require the light speed constant in fact. Such postulate doesn't apply for general relativity theory, just for special relativity theory. So it has no meaning to impeach the general relativity with connection to GZK scattering and Lorentz symmetry violation, because such effect is just the consequence of GR phenomena. The simple schematic view of relativity ("what violates the constant speed is violating the relativity as well") is the poor adviser here and it's typical for trolls, who don't understand the subject.

    But here's a caveat in Einstein field equations derivation. The classical field equations computes the energy density from curvature of space. But by E=mc^2 equation, every energy density corresponds the mass density and the mass density is the reason of the additional space-time curvature, which is modifying the Einstein's field equation slightly. Many modern field theories (the Yilmaz's, Heim's, MOND or double relativity in particular) are taking account into it by different formal ways. These corrections can become significant at higher space-time curvatures (i.e. near black holes), or at the cosmic distances scales, where the space-time curvature effects are becoming more pronounced. So they can affect the cosmic ray distribution at the 40+MPsc scale as well. Therefore we can say, both MOND theory, both double relativity can derive the GZK limit in principle, just by less intuitive way, then other theories. But the same results would follow even from general relativity postulates, if used thoroughly and consistently, i.e. by recursive way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2008
  8. draqon Banned Banned

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    zephir you can't just take that out of context! In context I said that these experiments seem to go against general relativity concepts, it was not a statement like it is that way, it was one of the assumption/hypothesis. And that is why there is a poll for this.
     

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