Isn't there a big problem in space exploration if the best when can do in terms of speed is nowhere even close to the speed of light? How will we ever get humans beyond the solar system?

Unless we get some of that Star Trek warp drive stuff, were're stuck. But is something that can propel an object faster than the speed of light even remotely possible? I know surely not in my lifetime.

And with all finacial cutbacks NASA is getting these days, it's not looking good. I try to be optimistic about some kind of faster than light propolsion but it's hard. From what I've heard, it's pretty impossible.

Hi Stef,

From a theoretical point of view, it is indeed impossible to do FTL travel. One of the tricks that might work is the bending of spacetime as you mentioned ("warp drive"). There has been some theoretical development on that, most notably by the Mexican physicist Alcubiere and Belgian physicist Van de Broeck (the former proved that it could be possible, but in his calculations he required too much energy to bend spacetime, the later proved that it is also possible with less energy - read: with energylevels perhaps once available to man :)).

Bye!

Crisp

Another possibility for FTL travel is to use a wormhole to connect to reigons of spacetime. The biggest problem with this is that wormholes are a bit unstable and would require another force to keep them open possibly antigravity. I think that another way is with charged sigularities but dont trut me im no expert. ;)

The biggest problem with this is that wormholes are a bit unstable and would require another force to keep them open possibly antigravity

So the problem that wormholes don't exist is not as important as they are allegedly unstable. Kewl.

Thewy do exist on a quantum level and have been mathmaticly proven on a real world level but not experimentally detected.

Does anyone recall the quantum tunnelling interaction? It's where a particle spontaneously disappears and reappears somewhere else. They have found that these quantum tunneled particles actually <b>do</b> travel at FTL speeds (if indeed they actually travel). This could potentially be used as some sort of FTL travel system, but probability is very very very very very against you. (On the order of 1:10^1000000000 or so ;) )

I should be more accurate. The quantum tunneled particles have not been proven to go FTL. All we know for certain is that the photon that <b>was</b> tunneled did reach the end of a tunnel <b>before</b> a non-tunneled photon. This does not necessarily mean the photon travelled FTL, it just means it set the detector off first. There is the possibility of some other force at work.

the lack of FTL travel won't limit man's ability to expand into outer space. We could very well populate our entire solar system with much slower than light travel. Keep in mind the vast differance in distance between say the planet Mars and even the closest star.
Some theorists have suggested that "wormholes" can indeed be created. All that you need is a ring of neutron stars about the distance of earth's orbit around the sun. You spin the neutron stars until they are nearing light speed. A wormhole will then form, a "fold" in spacetime, though you will need a similar construction at your destination to take advantage of it.
Now, while we will probably never possess the technology to manufacture neutron stars on such a large scale(not to mention gathering enough matter to build them) and to cause them to spin so quickly FTL travel may become possible if gravity-manipulating technology were fesible.
But at this juncture, at this stage in the human races development, we need cheap, and relatively swift, travel around our solar system. Chemical propellant has its weaknesses.
Which is another matter, even if a theoretical method of FTL travel were proven possible, how could we harness enough energy to take advantage of it?

starman,

Actually wormholes aren't as far off as you think. Here's an article about making artifical black holes in labs.

http://physicsweb.org/article/news/6/1/15

Maby this also intresting?:cool:
http://www.stardrivedevice.com/ch11ex.html

Thx
fukushi

READ: "THE PHYSICS OF STAR TREK" ........ It gives a theoretical view on how we would attempt
space travel faster than the speed of light. I have found that it answers a lot of the questions
that come up in this forum. I agree... I doubt that that kind of space travel will be available soon.


The "Warp Drive" doesn't "propel" the "Enterprise" it warps space and time around the ship to
move the position of ship rather thatn the ship it's self.

Originally posted by JimmyJames
The "Warp Drive" doesn't "propel" the "Enterprise" it warps space and time around the ship to move the position of ship rather thatn the ship it's self.I hope that was just bad grammar. Moving is defined by changing position, so moving the position IS moving the ship. What do you mean?

Most people think of a "Warp Drive" as a super-powerful engine....I meant that is doesn't "propel" the craft itself...
it causes matter in front of the ship to contract , and matter behind the craft to expand. Therefore it only moves matter
not the ship. I only meant to say that is is unlike any other form of propulsion, not some all-powerful space engine.
But...yes it does "propel" or move the position of the ship.

I doubt that that kind of space travel will be available soon.
I do not agree!!

It's theoretically perfectely possible to device a warp engine: wheter or not created by humans (atificial) or by nature,...

but to create warp you'll have to create a bubble around the space-ship,

It is shown how, within the framework of general relativity and without the introduction of wormholes, it is possible to modify a spacetime in a way that allows a spaceship to travel with an arbitrarily large speed. By a purely local expansion of spacetime behind the spaceship and an opposite contraction in front of it, motion faster than the speed of light as seen by observers outside the disturbed region is possible. The resulting distortion is reminiscent of the ``warp drive'' of science fiction. However, just as it happens with wormholes, exotic matter will be needed in order to generate a distortion of spacetime like the one discussed here.

the energy to create this 'bubble' (discovered by: Chris Van Den Broeck) around the spaceship is only a fraction of what is needed to warp time/space (you'll just need one ounce of it!) Mitchel Pfenning nad Larry Ford: they actually affirmated the theoretically possibillity of the general idear: but they also stated that the energy needed to warp space time is 10 billion times more energy then existing in the entire universe :(

So: a bubble?

The bubble you can compare with the Tardis: the telephone boot: in dr.Who,...on the outside: it looks like a regular telephone-boot: but on the inside it's bigger then a city!

how do we understand this? well: if you see a one-dimensional space: and you let a balloon-shaped object pass trough it: you will see just a circle growing from a point, to the diameter from the circle: and then back to a point,...but actually: it's a whole univers: a tree-dimensional space: it's just like in the string theory! the point is not just merely a point but it's also a whole dimension!

you'll have to see a the two-dimensional perimeter as surfaces and surfaces as dimensions,....and so on,...

I see it happening as a result of civilian devellopment: and NOT by a 'govermentally' governed institution like :NASA cause: they do not provide the people with the sufficiant possibilities: that is: a secret,...it's stupid,...

Space time travel IS possible,...there just has to be enough freedom to create it,...to test it,...and to make avantage of it,...

instead of surpressing the economy by instruating the people to be concurating instead of working together on this,...*sigh*

And you might as well think of the benifits too,...
some links:
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/html/warp/ideachev.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_364000/364496.stm
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9905084

Thx
:bugeye:

I couldn't have put it better myself. I didn't mean it was impossible by saying it would not be avalible soon. I simply meant what I said... you won't see any Warp Drives in next 50 years.

Haven't any of you heard about the Philadelphia Experiment.

With the help of Nikola Tesla, the US military created a resonating current in a military ship that transported the ship into another dimension.

Once in this other dimension, the object can come back into our universe at any location(maybe even at any time).

Tom

I thought they were trying to make it invisible, but the ended up transporting it 10 yrs. into the future.

Prosoothus

Haven't any of you heard about the Philadelphia Experiment.

Excerpt from a crank site regarding secret projects; (Philadelphia Experiment)

http://www.freezone.org/mc/e_conv04.htm

"The ship was pulled into hyperspace. We were inside the ship and knew something was drastically wrong with the test. We tried to shut it off but it wouldn't shut off. We ran out on deck and jumped over the side of the ship. We jumped overboard but ended up in a time tunnel which ended at Montauk, Long Island on August 12th, 1983. At night. We were found very quickly and taken down stairs, where Von Neumann greeted us. He expected us. It was a bit of a shock. We had just been in 1943 and now we were in 1983 looking at Von Neumann as an old man. He said that there was a hyperspace lockup and that we had to go back and shut off the generators on the ship or the hyperspace rift would keep increasing and possibly engulf the planet. He had been waiting 40 years for us to arrive.Montauk sent us back and we smashed the equipment with axes. The ship returned to its original point in space and about three hours later in time. From 1943 on, Von Neumann didn't know what happened. He had modified earlier equipment in 1943 to where he had a full blown time machine. The Germans also were working on time travel, and had it working in 1945 just before the end of the war. This is all a matter of record.

"If anything is done to either of us, there could be a rip in hyperspace. The whole reality system will shift. I will give you one guess as to what it will most likely shift to: We won the second world war by a slim margin. German technology was way ahead of us. If the war had gone on another 30 days the Germans would have won it. They had super weapons in production which they were ready to use. They were so close to winning the war that Churchill and FDR were really worried about it. If the system shifts, it could shift to a parallel reality where the Germans won the war.That's why the government doesn't dare kill either of you?
Right. Because of what we were involved in, it might jeopardize our entire reality system."

I wonder who's reality they're referring?
:rolleyes:

(Q),

That's on of the many stories about the Philadelphia Experiment.

I was referring to the more believable version that claims that the ship disappeared, and the reappeared a few minutes later, in another port a few hundred miles away.

The story I'm referring to doesn't involve time travel.

Tom

these where indeed german projects already tested and being used,...together with those fireballs,...

Here some links:
http://www.gpgwebdesign.com.au/germans.htm
http://www.relinfo.ch/thule/info.html
http://www.fsreview.net/spi/nazinth.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html
http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/ind2.htm
http://ovnis.esoterica.pt/ingles/antarctingl/VRIL6ingl.htm

Have fun reading,...

is not:

The Bush administration has ordered conceptual design work started for a new $2 billion to $4 billion plant that would produce plutonium triggers for the U.S. nuclear weapons force beginning in 2020, according to the National Nuclear Security Administration, which manages the U.S. nuclear weapons program.

but rather something more like:

The Bush administration has ordered conceptual design work started for a new $2 billion to $4 billion plant that would produce a warp enginge facility for the Joint International Space Operations, beginning in 2003, according to the National Space Propulsion Administration, wich manages the U.S. Space Propulsion Program.

Now : that would be a progress towards a future,... wich I would like to see for my children,...and the children of the world.


P.S;

The US DoD is requesting a massive increase in defence spending for Fiscal Year 2003 and all signs point to future calls for further increases.

In its annual budget request to Congress, the DoD asked for $379 billion for FY03, a $38 billion increase on last year, plus an additional $10 billion "war reserve" for contingencies.
now: wouldn't that be a nice buget to start a space program with nèh?!? just think about it,....$389 billion,....(PER YEAR!!!)
we could be already stepping our feets down on Andromeda,....what a rush!

Thx
:bugeye:

I think the best design will be an interdimensional drive that punches into the 5th dimension and back....

One will need a lot of Teslas to create a hypercharge field....

fukushi has it right. As i'm writing this i'm listening to the huge amount of money being brought to the table by the government for war and the fight against terror. With all this money going to war, there's hardly any left for NASA and any research. Especially after Sept. 11, the space program and research funding is becoming extremely limited.

Am I wrong in saying that until we all get along, research for space travel is going to be low on Mr. Bushes agenda?

Here is a controversial argument:

Since I have reason (this is not the place to go into details) to beleave in UFO's (extra terrestrial) visiting planet Earth, FTL travel should be possible. This is a uplifting thought.

Perhaps UFO's doesn't sound so strange if we assume FTL travel is possible.

Hi itchy:

If you are driving an UFO and you are going from Uppsala to Hudiksval....why should you care what happens both sides of the road a 10 KM away?

http://www.weatherhub.com/images/maps/sw.gif

The ship did not vanish and the reappear elsewhere. It did not become Doctor Who's TARDIS. People did not go invisble or get stuck half way into decks. The ship did not myseriously disappear into some secret CIA warehouse.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-1.htm
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq21-2.htm
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/geldrige.html
http://www.time-travel.com/pxeldhis.htm
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/...nsh-e/de173.htm
http://www.warships1.com/W-Tech/tech-058.htm
http://skepdic.com/philadel.html
http://www.unmuseum.mus.pa.us/philex.htm
http://www.navsource.org/archives/06/173.htm

The ship did not vanish and the reappear elsewhere. It did not become Doctor Who's TARDIS. People did not go invisble or get stuck half way into decks. The ship did not myseriously disappear into some secret CIA warehouse.
Hear hear hear!
Mister dis informer is here to tell you he's not aware of the secrets passing in front of his nose,...(or behind his back).

Sorry Adam:
Maby you are not willing to see all the shit that's coming down on people because of goverments controlling the people's minds, but it's wors enough this is happening trough media like : T.V. Radio, Newspapers, ect ect,...we don't need you for it.
It's nice that you want to defend something: but ask yourself: what are you defending? Common sense? oh no! certainly NOT!
Logic? oh no! certainly NOT

It's okay to have a different commonsense and/or logic, but YOU MUST clearly see the solution don't you? And your solution is: deny deny deny,...
YOUR logic goes: OH NO ! everyting is normal everyting is normal: there are no anomalies in this world, there is nothing happening, everything most go it's 'normal' path,...everything is normal,.... AAAAH ! NO ! DON'T say something where I can't cope with !

Your reaction is not wanted,...it's not nice to deny something,
Look: life is a great moment: why spoil it with denyals if you can say YES ! to something: just considder the possibilities after you doubt: but I'm shure you'll have it verry difficult with saying something to yourself:

Yes! Anomalies exist, yes! secret programs exist, yes! black buget programs exist, yes! goverments do make plans and have a secret agenda for this world, yes! ufo's already exist, yes! they are govermental and extraterrestial in nature, yes! there is contact!

I can go on for years if you like, but I'm shure you don't.

Thx
:bugeye: