2016 Republican Presidential Clown Car Begins!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    Jeez, I'm sitting here listening to Glenn Beck on CNN. Compared to Trump even he sounds reasonable.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    That is indeed jaw dropping. Beck is one of the biggest right wing conspiracists other there.
     
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  5. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Breaking News: Manafort has resigned. That's a sudden change. Yesterday he was demoted and today he resigned. The question is, why? Is Trump trying to cut his ties to foreign dictators and Putin in particular? Was this resignation planned to mitigate the impact of Manafort's Russian connections?

    Manafort claims he resigned because he didn't want to become a distraction. I think there is some truth in that. Trump wants to minimize his Russian connections.
     
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  7. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    A new softer Trump? Trump issued a sort of vague apology without really apologizing. Will we see a new Trump going forward? It's difficult to believe that would be the case especially given the fact he just appointed Bannon, a man famous for his outlandish assertions and lies, as his campaign manager.

    Beck believes the new gentler, kinder, Trump on display last night is entirely attributable to the influence of Roger Ailes. Beck knows Ailes, he worked for Ailes for a long time. So I think Beck is very credible here.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Here is the problem with the newer kinder Ailes engineered Trump, Trump still has the same old Trumpian rhetoric. Below is a link to Trump's ad which was released this morning.

    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/19/49060...releases-first-campaign-ad-to-air-in-4-states

    Trump promised his followers last evening that he would always tell them the truth. The problem with that is Trump has rarely been honest with his followers. Fact checkers have found that more than 70% of what Trump says is rated "pants on fire lies" compared to only about 10% for his Democratic opponent.
     
  9. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Anti-American

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    What if Manafort has specific legal exposure to foreign hostile action against United States Marines?

    Yeah, that would be serious.

    Author Mark Sumner↱ uses the word "traitor", but it's really early in this particular question of scandal. To consider the basic allegation:

    Because if some of the charges now being levied against Paul Manafort turn out to be true, he's done more than just accept cash under the table. More even than trying to subvert laws against foreign lobbying. Manafort may have stepped over a very bright line.

    "We had rocks thrown at us. Rocks hit Marines. Buses were rocked back and forth. We were just trying to get to our base." …

    The Marines ended up hemmed in by angry locals in Feodosia, a Ukrainian resort city on the Black Sea. ... The Americans couldn't go outside; they couldn't reach their supply ship in the town's port. Some protesters wielded what Col. Bill Black, the Marines' commanding officer, jokingly called "Ukrainian cocktails" — plastic bottles filled with diesel fuel.

    The riot that put American Marines in danger and forced cancellation of a NATO military exercise may have been somewhat less than spontaneous. It may have been bought and paid for by Paul Manafort.

    The first caveat is that there are, presently, a number of gaps along the way to calling Manafort a traitor. The second, though, is to consider how things go in our political discourse. If Robbie Mook, for instance, had Manafort's record, for instance?

    The source article for Mr. Sumner's diary comes from Fusion, where Adam Weinstein and Ken Silverstein↱ report:

    fter hunkering down in their compound for two weeks, the Marines boarded a jet under cover of darkness and returned home, their mission unfinished. The larger military exercise, an annual event to increase security cooperation between Ukraine and the US, was scrubbed entirely. President George W. Bush would subsequently cancel a planned trip to Ukraine later that month.

    A decade later, the aborted exercise is arousing new interest: American diplomatic cables and Ukrainian prosecutors say the anti-US, anti-NATO protests that threatened these Marines were largely partisan plants, organized by politicians who consulted with Paul Manafort, now the prominent campaign aide to presidential candidate Donald Trump.

    ‡​

    A memo leaked to the Times of London on Wednesday suggests Ukrainian prosecutors believe Manafort actively helped to foment unrest in the incident, one of a long line of provocations they say may have contributed to Eastern Ukraine's secession from the country and Russia's interference in the region, known as Crimea. The reason for the protests, prosecutors say, was to give Manafort's clients a domestic political advantage. If that was the aim, they succeeded spectacularly.

    Sumner's critique resonates:

    However, despite Donald Trump's insistence that he only hires the "best people" and his promise of "extreme vetting" for immigrants, it appears that he failed to apply the same questions about supporting "American values" when it came to his interviews with his erstwhile campaign manager.

    Honestly, what would we be saying about this situation if Manafort was on Hillary Clinton's campaign?

    And, you know, when Paul Manafort represents what a candidate like Donald Trump calls the "best people", yeah, it's fair to remind his supporters of these examples of his judgment. To that point, let's face it: The rest of us know Trump supporters are anti-American; one more reminder only leaves everyone glancing that crowd to wonder once more just how long the terrible people believe they can maintain their useless pretense of righteous naïveté and dangerous ignorance.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Sumner, Mark. "Allegations against Paul Manafort may be enough to earn him a new title: Traitor". Daily Kos. 19 August 2016. DailyKos.com. 19 August 2016. http://bit.ly/2b9O1LP

    Weinstein, Adam and Ken Silverstein. "Trump aide Manafort implicated in pro-Russian protests against US troops". Fusion. 18 August 2016. Fusion.net. 19 August 2016. http://fus.in/2b3zggv
     
  10. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    It's hopeless. Trump was right. He could shoot someone and it wouldn't matter. I have never been so disgusted with this country.
     
  11. origin Heading towards oblivion Valued Senior Member

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    So now we have the 3rd campaign manager in 3 months? Hmmmm, mayhaps the problem is not the campaign managers, but the candidate? [duh]
     
  12. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    Here is one of Trump's Syrian terrorists.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  13. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,832
    So how's that prediction going, the one about the RNC cutting its candidate adrift. Is it waiting to see what happens with the debates, and will those be even happening?

    Interesting how this is now all about the polls, and all about the Trump campaign itself. The messages don't seem to be having any effect on all those swing voters.

    So it's down to how accurately all the polling is being done, and maybe who does it, in particular how the RNC polls its electorate.
    Is modern polling an accurate science anyway? Some people don't want to be polled.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  14. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    207
    At this point I think everyone has already made up their mind. There is little about the candidates we don't already know.
     
  15. douwd20 Registered Senior Member

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    All I see is Donald Trump and his advisors - Newt Gingrich, Roger Ailes, Rudy Giuliani and now Steve Bannon. Are these guys not the most evil Legion of Doom reptiles on the planet?
     
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  16. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  17. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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  18. Ivan Seeking Registered Senior Member

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    957
    They are certainly doing and have done tremendous damage to this country. I never imagined that any serious political figure in this country would support a scumbag like Trump. Basically we are seeing an attempted hostile takeover of the country and perhaps by people acting on behalf of foreign agents. This is damned serious; like something out of a dark comedy but for real.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    It's a fun question, but actually a slightly tougher answer than you might expect. Colloquially, we might chuckle and say, "Yeah, why not?" What if I told you, though, that it's even worse?

    I sent this note to a friend of mine, last night ....

    †​

    So here's my ego:

    Back in 2011, a gang of mainstream media pundits (such as Ross Douthat, Michael Gerson, Mark Pinsky, Lisa Miller, and others) launched an all-out effort to poo-pooh (see 1, 2, 3, 4) reporting, especially from the website I co-founded in 2005 with Frederick Clarkson, concerning ties between various GOP presidential hopefuls (such as Rick Perry) in the 2012 election and the movement referred to as “dominionism”.

    Another term for “dominionism” is “Christian supremacy” ; it’s a tendency on the spectrum that runs towards theocracy.


    (Daily Kos↱)

    The name Frederick Clarkson↗ pinged me.

    That old radio episode↗ turned out to be, you know, just one of those things.

    Important.

    And, yes, D. James Kennedy, whose name you'll find in that 2007 post including Frederick Clarkson, is or was also part of the Council for National Policy (CNP), the organization the Daily Kos diarist is so alarmed about.

    Both Stephen K. Banning and Kellyanne Conway are part of CNP.

    Michelle Goldberg, circa 2007:

    I'm going to skip ahead to this part about a conference that's held every year in D. James Kennedy's church in Fort Lauderdale, which is called―well, he has something called the Center for Reclaiming America, and then he has a large church called Coral Ridge Ministries, and he's actually the third most-watched televangelist in the country. He's a little bit less-known than some of the others, but he's been very, very politically active. He has an office in D.C. that exists just to evangelize young Hill staffers, and they frequently bring in high-ranking Republicans, and have these prayer luncheons.

    At the latest conference, he had Mike Huckabee, who's one of the Republican candidates for [president]. But this is a couple years ago, so:

    Every year, for the past twelve years, D. James Kennedy has hosted the Reclaiming America for Christ conference, usually at his Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale. The event brings together hundreds of committed Christian nationalists for two days of lectures, seminars, and devotions that, as the 2001 conference website puts it, "chart the path for believers to take back the land in America". Speakers have included Roy Moore, David Barton, and Rick Scarborough, as well as the occasional GOP operative like Clinton prosecutor Kenneth Starr. Former Vice-President Dan Quayle delivered a speech in the first Reclaiming America for Christ Conference in 1994. In his book, Eternal Hostility, Frederick Clarkson described the scene:

    Quayle's speech was unremarkable, except for his presence during the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance―to the Christian flag―which preceded his remarks. The Christian flag, white with a gold cross on a blue field in the upper-left corner, flies outside Kennedy headquarters. The assemblage recited together: I pledge allegiance to the Christian Flag and to the Savior for whose Kingdom it stands. One Savior, crucified, risen, and coming again with life and liberty for all who believe.

    For all who believe. Reclaiming America for Christ is a place where the Christian nationalist movement drops its democratic pretenses and indulges its theocratic dreams.

    And now Donald Trump is bringing these influences to bear.

    My brother and I have this really weird joke; the arrogant-sounding and not quite accurate way of saying it is that we accidentally stumble into significance.

    It's a lot harder to explain than that, but it's also true, sometimes I really do wonder.

    Never mind. It's just that I can't believe this arc is back in play.

    By the time I need to come up with something useful, I'm sure I'll be able to. But, yeah, my ego is a little high on itself at the moment. It's a great distraction to fill the time otherwise spent wallowing in disbelief, but it's not actually, you know, useful.

    But, seriously, why this crew? These are the genuine anti-Americans, the real Christ-before-country advocates of apocalypse.

    Premillennial dispensationalism, purity culture, Christian nationalism; Trump really is bringing the show. I'm itching for this fight. This is serious wheelhouse, what I've trained up for. These are the people who have declared themselves my enemies, over and over and over again. In the movies, my eyes would sparkle as my tongue caressed my fangs in lusting anticipation of carnage drawn nigh.

    I will eat their souls.

    Oh, my. Oh my, oh my, oh my.

    I want these people to throw down so we can finally settle this.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Goldberg, Michelle. "Michelle Goldberg: The Rise of Christian Nationalism". Speakers' Forum. KUOW. 18 October 2007. KUOW.org. 19 August 2016. http://bit.ly/1GO3Luv

    Troutfishing. "Theocratic Right Now Runs Trump Campaign―Bannon and Conway are in the CNP!" Daily Kos. 18 August 2016. DailyKos.com. 19 August 2016. http://bit.ly/2b5K0qb
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    W & Cheney were re-elected - by a larger majority than they were elected by. Rush Limbaugh was given much of the credit.

    At the time, W's close personal and familial ties with the government and people most closely and significantly tied to 9/11 were common knowledge. Cheney's secrecy and obdurate refusal to either sever or detail his continuing business and professional dealings with major oil companies and military contractors were also common knowledge.

    A few months ago, conventional wisdom had it that Trump's biggest weakness and split with the Party was his inability to appeal to the fundies.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Now it is rumored Trump will start his own network to compete with Fox News and other right wing entertainment sources. Well, that will be interesting. It's a really crowed market place. There are a lot of right wing entertainers out there. Sarah Palin tried it, and it failed. Can the Donald do what Palin and others couldn't? Palin had and still has a devoted following.

    The difference as I see it, is Trump is a much better entertainer. He has had his own television program and it was very successful. I'm skeptical because the industry is so crowded. There is a lot of competition. But Trump just might be able to pull it off. He owns a significant portion of the Republican base. He could take some big name Fox News celebrities with him e.g. Hannity, O'Reilly, et al.
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,891
    I couldn't possibly imagine.

    Trumpbreit?

    Sure as hell ain't going to be Breitrump.
     
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  23. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

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    4,201
    "Sure as hell ain't going to be Breitrump." - very cute...
     

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