5000 soldiers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Good definition.
    That was attempted on Jan 6th of this year by angry Trump supporters.
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

    They will probably stick around for a while just in case Trump supporters try to vandalize the Capitol and kill cops again. But yes, eventually they will go home.
    Nope. What explains it is the attempted coup on Jan 6th.

    Also human nature. You may not understand this, but if someone is a cop, and an angry mob of Trump supporters kills a fellow cop, they are not going to say "oh well, these things happen, c'est la vie." They are going to make VERY sure that it never happens again. Even if it means razor wire and lots of guns. Even if those things scare you half to death.
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  5. Bells Staff Member

    Hark back to the 6th of January of this year, when your side tried to stage a coup..

    I posted several links in my previous post that explains how and why it can be referred to as a coup attempt.

    Trump supporters stormed the Capitol with intent of stopping the process that would allow a peaceful transfer of Government and also with the intent of assassinating the then Vice President and senior Democrats.

    That is why there are still 5000 armed soldiers guarding the Capitol. Because the crazies are still out there and pose a direct threat to your nation's government and have indicated that they intend to return. Because their cult has deemed that the dude you voted for is meant to ascend the throne of power in the US and the date they are currently fixating on is the 4th of March.

    As I also noted in my previous post, you are really bad at this, but you are simply true to form.

    The crazy would be hilarious if they weren't so deadly.
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  7. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    It seems that we view the DC stuff differently
    From my perspective:
    On the night of the riot, what I saw was chaotic disorganization on both sides.
    The capitol police seemed poorly trained for dealing with the mob and leaderless
    while the rioters seemed to have too many seeking to be leaders with little or no coordination

    Those buildings ain't democracy, they have, however become a symbol of our republic
    and surrounding that symbol with fence, razerwire, and armed troops seriously undermines the message of that symbol.
    Perhaps, part of the undermining of that symbol also comes from within?

    About covid, many are wondering about "the new normal"
    about DC, I seriously hope that the soldiers with in combat gear ain't the "new normal"
    it sux

    ok(personal bias)
    50 odd years ago, as a soldier, I spent a lot of time in Washington DC.(wearing a class A---dress uniform)
    It was beautiful, truly majestic architecture in a park like setting, at the same time, welcoming and awe inspiring.
    The message was one of inclusion-----"This is the seat of your government."
    (If you get a chance to go there, do so, and, if you can go in the spring when the cherry trees are in blossom, even better.)

    The travesty(looks like a forward fire base to me) there today speaks of alienation.
    And one thing that this country does not need is more alienation.

    Symbolism matters!
  8. foghorn Registered Senior Member

    And this from the person who cannot see nothing wrong with the use of the confederate flag.
    For some the history of the confederate flag (adopted during the war) carries a remembrance of slaves states uniting to keep their way of running their economy:
    My bold

    Attached Files:

  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Let me say this SLOWLY one more time for the slower people in the classroom:
    T H A T
    A I N ' T
    T H E
    C O N F E D E R A T E
    F L A G

    not now, not ever
    it's really simple
    even for an LCD
  10. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    The flags of the Confederate States of America have a history of three successive designs from 1861 to 1865. The flags were known as the "Stars and Bars", used from 1861 to 1863, the "Stainless Banner", used from 1863 to 1865, and the "Blood-Stained Banner", used in 1865 shortly before the Confederacy's dissolution. A rejected national flag design was also used as a Confederate army's battle flag and featured in the "Stainless Banner" and "Blood-Stained Banner" designs. Although this design was never a national flag, it is the most commonly recognized symbol of the Confederacy.
    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

    During the war, the Confederacy and its military forces used a variety of flags, but the flag that became most associated with the Confederacy was the so-called "battle flag." Organizations such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans adopted the flag as a symbol of Southern heritage but the flag also served as a potent symbol of slavery and white supremacy, which has caused it to be very popular among white supremacists in the 20th and 21st centuries. This popularity extends to white supremacists beyond the borders of the United States.
    Source: https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/confederate-flag

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  11. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    This from the man who says, "Symbolism matters".

  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

    And, importantly, had no backup. The Secretary of Defense, an unconfirmed recent Trump appointee, sent out an order prohibiting the National Guard from assisting the police in the case of a riot.
    There was plenty of coordination; messages and events weeks in advance from Trump, the Council for National Policy, Women for America First, the Proud Boys, Tea Party Patriots and Turning Point Action drew people and prepared for violence. The CNP hosted two rallies and put together a bus caravan to get people to DC that day. Several former White House staffers and Trump campaigners were on-site coordinators for the rally, and led the march to the Capitol. Before the riot, the leader of the CNP tweeted that “everyone can guess what me and 500,000 others will do to that building. 1776 is *always* an option.” At a rally he led a chant of "victory or death."

    There were many leaders on site as well. One of course was horns guy, the Qanon shaman, who led a group of people into the Capitol. Ali Alexander, the CNP leader who called for the destruction of the Capitol, was another.

    But yes, there was also a lot of confusion, as is the case with most riots.
    I think trying to kidnap and kill government representatives in order to steal an election is worse.

    Don't want razor wire? Stop killing cops and trying to kill senators.
    It will be the new normal for a while, until we can flush the last of the violent, irrational Trump supporters. No one wants more cops killed.

    It needs coups even less.
    Reality trump symbolism. On March 4th we may see another attempt at murder, violence and vandalism. Those troops will stay to protect our government.
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

  14. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    did you actually look at your linked?
    compare what's there to what foggy posted

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    that flag ain't therein claimed to be the flag of the Confederate States of America
    not once
    not ever

    it's really simple

    I suspect that the people who fly it today would most likely refer to it as the(a?) rebel flag
    I do not know any of them, so i cannot verify that suspicion
    alternately this is the flag we used for the plantings

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  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Sure, let's compare that to the second national confederate flag, used on their Navy:
  16. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    And what would they be "rebel(ling)" against?
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    How the hell should I know.
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

    I will let readers compare the two flags in my post and decide on their own whether they are the same flag.
  20. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Back to the armed encampment in DC
    (anyone hear faint echoes of Kent State?)

    The fences clash with the ambiance of DC.
  21. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Ermmm, an answer was provided by the wiki passage I cited. Point being: you don't have to personally "know any of them" to get a sense of what they believe they are "rebelling" against. This is the 21st century--they're are resources for such.
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Perhaps, relying on wiki for your knowledge base ain't the smartest thing you ever did?
  23. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    I don't. But it's a valid resource nevertheless, and criticisms it faced in previous decades no longer apply.

    Have you got a better source for info on what "they" might be "rebel(ling)" against, seeing as you don't personally "know any of them?"

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