5000 soldiers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Feb 26, 2021.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,537
    Washington, D.C., is the seat and symbol of American democracy. Its great buildings, most of all the Capitol, are manifestations of the nation’s power and prosperity and of its peculiar form of government: of the people, by the people and for the people.

    The Capitol complex is a place where Americans can go to watch their representatives, to speak with those representatives, to petition for the redress of grievances.

    The building and its grounds also are part of the fabric of the city. Streams of bikers pass through on morning and evening commutes. Tourists gather for concerts on the lawn. When it snows, the front face of Capitol Hill becomes a popular sledding spot, with neighborhood children sometimes transforming discarded protest signs into makeshift sleds.

    This is not just an amenity for neighbors and visitors. It is the tangible manifestation of the idea that the government is a part of American life, rather than something separate and apart.

    In recent decades, while much of the federal government was encased in layers of security fencing, bollards and concrete barriers, Congress largely resisted the trend. The Capitol’s defenses were strengthened, but it remained possible for members of the public to walk the grounds and to pose for pictures on the front steps.

    After the Jan. 6 attack, though, temporary fencing was hastily installed around the Capitol and the surrounding congressional office buildings — a tall black barrier topped with loops of razor wire and patrolled by armed troops. It has transformed the Capitol into a symbol of the nation’s fears.

    The attack on the Capitol could have been prevented or mitigated in severity by the timely deployment of an adequate number of police officers and National Guard troops — in effect, a temporary barrier. Any similar threats in the future can and should be met in the same manner. The basic failure was one of policing. It was not a failure of architecture.

    The poet Robert Frost had it right when he wrote, “Before I built a wall I’d ask to know/What I was walling in or walling out/And to whom I was like to give offense.” A wall would create a symbolic barrier between Congress and all of the American people, not just the minority that is unwilling to accept and obey the rules of the republic.

    By taking down the temporary fencing around the Capitol as soon as possible, and by pursuing other measures to ensure the security of the building and all those who enter it, Congress can restore its full splendor as a symbol of American democracy.

    borrowed from the new york times
     
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  3. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, right. You just "suspect" random shit based on... nothing? Perhaps that ain't the smartest thing you ever did.

     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You don't seem to get it. There is a credible threat that Trump supporters will attempt to attack the Capitol again in the near future.

    Protecting the building and its occupants is more important than pandering to your notions of ambiance.
     
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  7. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    627
    These KKK sailors are going back to ship after shore leave.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    http://campbelllawobserver.com/kkk-members-travel-to-virginia-to-put-first-amendment-to-the-test/
    Do you need to see pictures of past KKK lynchings? Happy memories for some no doubt.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    sure
    Do you still have the snapshots from when you were there in 1981?
     
  9. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    627
    Since you can't bring yourself to say the flag causes alienation, it makes a mockery of your claim about ''one thing that this country does not need is more alienation''. And pretending that you care about '' Symbolism matters!''.
    Spot the difference:
    I said the following in a post:
    Sculptor knowing he has lost the point, decides to quote me by leaving off the end of quote.

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    Compare flags... The KKK picture below.

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    http://campbelllawobserver.com/kkk-members-travel-to-virginia-to-put-first-amendment-to-the-test/
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  10. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    How do you know that the guys in the picture are members of the KKK?
     
  11. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    627
    See green circle in large picture KKK. Same event and same flags being held in background:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/08/us/kkk-rally-charlottesville-statues/index.html
    Compare flags KKK large picture and note my green circle on woman's shirt KKK.

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  12. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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  13. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    The picture below shows a KKK woman waving the flag, the flag you think is not alienating.
    See my green circle on woman's shirt. KKK. It's the same event.

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  14. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I know them, and they do. Even though I tell them that is NOT the flag that flew over the Confederate section at Six Flags - they still call it the rebel and/or confederate flag. For them, this flag symbolizes the Confederacy. And, as someone said, symbols matter.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,437
    Give it up. Nothing you can say will get him to accept reality.
     
    foghorn likes this.
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Thanx for the excursion foggy
    What does seem obvious is that the people who display KKK regalia and rebel flags together are doing so with the intention of being offensive.
    And by so doing they are attempting to control the narrative of the meaning of the rebel flag.
    Being offended by them gives them exactly what they want.
    My own approach would be to ignore them and by so doing deny them what they want.

    My advice:
    Don't take it seriously. Don't give these people what they want.
    Maybe, have a good laugh at their expense?

    ...........................................................................................................

    (caveat: My first-ex-wife once told me that the cruelest thing I ever did to her was laugh when she was really angry) (so, maybe that approach is not always the best?)
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,537
    Meanwhile:
    Back to the subject of this thread.
    The architecture wasn't the problem, and cannot be fixed with a fence.
    The problem was a lack of training and leadership of the capitol police.

    from congressional inquiry into the riot and invasion of the capitol building:
    The police had the rioters outnumbered, but not out maneuvered.
    What the police lacked was a clear direction and protocol for such an activity.
    more from the hearing
    "should have been giving directions"
    This was a breakdown of the command structure!
    OK
    The problem could be remedied by more/better training, and a clear chain of command and better communication skills by those in command.

    What I saw in the video clips of the event was police wandering about with no clear plan and in desperate need of leadership.
    That should be the focus of a remedy.
    1200 police should not have suffered a defeat at the hands of 800 rioters.

    The fence and national guard amounts to a desperate show of force by the ill informed displaying their ignorance and insecurities.

    It sends the wrong message!
    And is not a good nor permanent solution.

    ...................................
    but, then again
    I could be wrong.
     
  18. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    627
    You, still don't get it...
    Your forgetting... It's not just the old KKK lynchings.

    The flag was' born ' in a war in which slavery was of a big issue, to keep their economy going the south needed slaves. And, the things spoken about blacks as if the were sub-human by the then people of those states.

    To have that flag flapping about today is a reminder of past cruel times.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  19. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    627
    Sorry to have interrupted your defence of the Capital riot.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It represents a show of force to deter criminals and insurrectionists from breaking into the Capitol building, shitting on the floor, killing cops, vandalizing and looting. We know this might happen because it DID happen.

    So far it's working. We will see on Mar 4th if it's enough.
    I agree. A much better solution is to root out and eliminte the disinformation and manipulation of the masses by the political elite, who seek to use that misinformation to advance their own personal agendas.
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,537
    lol
     
  22. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Says the old white guy, who has the luxury of doing just that.

    Generally, pretending that something like, say, racism does not exist and does not, for many, have literally deadly consequences, is not a viable strategy. Sure, it may "work" for an old white guy, but plenty aren't so fortunate. At best, it comes across as simply ignorant; at worst--and more likely--it comes across as you throwing in with that lot--KKK, white supremacists, etc.--and makes you seem more loathesome and dangerous than stupid.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,437
    Which is white privledge in a nutshell.
     

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