How do you know? One point in my favor is the PNAC document, signed by many current neo-cons, which recognized that the public wouldn't accept their plans without some kind of pearl harbor event. I'm not saying it's proof of any kind, but it might be cause for doubt. Just like with the JFK assassination, people tend to focus on the events of that day, the magic bullet and such, when the more interesting part is what led up to that.
But it's illogical; mad. It plays well, no doubt, at al-Ahzar, or on al-Manar, or al-Jazeera. Yet, the theories are crackpot at best - there were no bombs, no mythical 4000 Israelis stayed home (the 4000 figure refers to those in the area, not in the bloody Towers themselves), and steel is indeed (as we've seen) weakened by even short exposure to temperatures greater than 500C. There are films of planes crashing into the Towers; ironically the argument circulating on Iranian (or is it Syrian? Egyptian? so hard to tell apart sometimes) TV now (since the "where are the films?" distraction didn't work out) is that the films are 'too good'. "Why, it's just too unlikely that anyone would have filmed it! I know, we demanded video evidence...and, er, now that we have it...we find it too unlikely that anyone would have been filming. It must have been the Mossad!" Etc etc, ad nauseam. So what is left? Hope? Hatred? The final gasp that maybe, just maybe, "we" can get Bush on this, finally, since the damned 'chad' thing didn't go our way? Fine: we lost an election. Half the population of the US doesn't like what the present administration is doing. Fine. And too bad. That's the way the bloody game is played, and it's a damn certainty no Democrat, me included, would be complaining if we'd won. Is it really worth rewriting history to try and spit in Bush's eye? Is it worth our civilization? It's no small issue to point out that the Romans were destroyed the same way; small-minded navel gazing and blunted egos playing out in the large stage they though they deserved. Should we then gouge out our eyes to spite our face too? Don't like Bush? Impeach him. Vote him out. But for the love of everything you claim to hold dear, don't make up shit. It's not helping us. By focusing on nonsense, we as socialists are providing support to a philosophy that would quite happily kill us for our beliefs - not cut off our grant money, not overindustrialise America, but actually literally kill us, and all who think like us. Idiocy. Geoff
Hiya Neildo! I'd be glad to "splain" things for you. But why exactly is it that getting the names of some of the individuals wrong would cause such a tizzy with you? I suppose it would be impossible for anyone to get fake passports made up, especially in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. That could never happen. Also, it would of course be impossible for terrorists to impersonate other people. As you well know, all al-Qaeda representatives are required by sharia law to present complete identification including fingerprints, anal scans and al-Qaeda identification cards at all airport checkpoints. "Smooth and uncomplicated" has always been the watchphrase for international terrorism, as we both know. As for the intended terrorist, I don't dare to imagine you haven't seen this link: Well, maybe al-Jazeera is in on the big conspiracy. No? Please, Neildo, let's try not to be cynical. Again, it appears al-Jazeera is doing the alleging. Hmm. Are they under the control of Zionists? Well, Iran thinks so. Well. Let's see. Now, your link says Hamza Alghamdi and Wail Alshehri didn't die. [Of course, the link is broken, and I haven't seen anyone trot these two out for the camera, but still, let's assume the evidence is there.] And yet, here they are in an al-Qaeda made video (by al Sahab, above in italics) with Bin Laden. So they're al Qaeda members. Does this perhaps strike a chord with you?
Well, you'll have to take it up with Osama. I can't speak for the wisdom of their media relations. Then again, if you're living in a cave all day and Hezbollah is stealing your limelight, maybe you're just a titch too twitchy to think things through. The most amusing thing in all this is the wonks trying to make excuses for what essentially amounts to a straightforward admission by al Qaeda that they're responsible. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! "We did it! We did it all!" "No you didn't!" Etc. Seriously, what are you thinking? Geoff
Why would I be in a tizzy? Well gee, lemme see... A buncha people just blew up the White House. Some of their names are Geoff and Buffalo Roam. I'll post their names and pictures and make them infamous, and decide to invade and bomb their homes in retribution. Later we find out, oops, it wasn't them that did the bombing, but oh well, instead it was Kiwi123 and MattMarr. Surely we would have assumed the passports used in the hijackings would be fake yet that didn't stop us from going after those names. Yet when the attack happened, we instantly knew who the hijackers were and had our story made. Hell, for all we know, it could have been Israeli guys that hijacked and crashed the planes making it look like it was Arabs with the shoddy evidence found at the scene yet the cold, hard evidence we need -- their bodies -- are gone thanks to the method used to take down the towers. Afterall, you all know the story of the cheering Israelis at the scene. They're one of the groups that benefit from this whole attack as well. That's always the place to look, who benefits. Who knows who did it since all we have are fake names of a bunch of guys who are actually still alive and other questionable so-called evidence. - N
Hi Nelido, i hope all is ok with you. Your above post is quite amusing, the problem with these conspiracy theories is that in effect all they are doing is letting the Bush admionistration off the hook for their complete incompetence to prevent the event... the cover ups are not becuase the event did not happen the way we saw it, but to cover up their gross neglegance.... How the hell only 1 person has been charge in connection with this attrocity is beyond me.
How do you verify the materials as authentic? As a question: Did the Iraq Government, or Saddam Hussein, or Iraqi based Al Queda forces have any invovlement in the 911 scenario? Geistkiesel
Iraqi based Alqueda were not around in 2001 as the US invasion attracted them to Iraq .... Saddam would not of had those guys making noises in Iraq, as this would be far to much of a threat to his power.
I'm sure Bush is an excellent strategist... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! What's his IQ again? 82? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Would we, necessarily? How many suicide bombers hide their identities? Is that why people make "martyrdom videos". "Here, this is what I would have done, if I were this guy. Allah ackbar." Frankly, it's a new twist on a old situation. What - you think islamofacists can't be a little creative? Instantly? Ahh - you're implying that whole 'set-up' thing again, I gotcha, I read you loud and clear. Too bad it's crap. Then again, how long would it have taken to read an airplane flight list? You mean by their crashing planes into the Towers? True - that was very thoughtless of the hijackers. And there's that Israeli thing again. Are you familiar with the word "apocryphal"? No? Maybe we could just put it in the same bag as the nonsensical story about the 4000 Israelis who supposedly worked in the Towers and pretended to be sick that day. Did a couple hundred of them miss checking their PDAs that day? And, why, how do we know that any Israelis anywhere were cheering that day? (I know for a fact many Palestinians, Iranians, Jordanians...heck, a whole lotta the ummah, let's just say, were cheering. Hell, I heard Arab Canadians were cheering in Ontario, Canada.) Couldn't these Israelis have been islamic plants? Where are the passports to prove they were Israelis? Yeah, aside from all the passports that weren't obvious plants by al-Qaeda, and Osama's video discussing the planned attack, and his taking credit for it, and martyrdom videos, and passports and videos and everything - you're dead right. Aside from all that, no evidence whatsoever. Except for the flight documents and training, that is. But aside from that, no evidence whatsoever. Geoff
I don't know if Iraqi anything had any involvement. Then again, that wasn't the only reason they invaded. Geoff
I look at it as a consipracy of inaction. A calm and reasonably sober review of the publically known and incontestable facts demonstrates that the intelligence community and the Bush Administration knew something was up in the summer of 2001. They did absolutely nothing about it. Is that because they are incompetent or is it because they wanted an attack on U.S. soil? Then there's a conspiracy of silence. I, for one, would like to know exactly what the Saudis stood to gain from having 15 of their nationals carry out the attack? And why the U.S. government didn't tear the Saudis a new one in response? Why does no one discuss this?
te jen Nothing, the terrorist may have been Saudi but they were also part of a war against their own country, they don't want the U.S. to have military bases in Saudi Arabia, the terrorist being Wahabist don't want their government having any association with the U.S., if you would pay attention to the news there have been many clash's with these people and the Saudi Government. List of terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free ... This is a timeline of the terrorist incidents in Saudi Arabia derived from reports in the Saudi media and other sources. The attacks have killed 91 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_in_Saudi_Arabia
Trying not to get too sensitive in case the CIA kills me here. 1. For the government themself to commit such an act is absolutely incredible. This would require hundreds, if not thousands, of highly trained intelligence operatives, carrying out the operation with military precision. The chance that there is no leaks seems miniscule. 2. If whoever plotted this crime was found out, they'd be marked as the most savage villain in all of human history. That is beside the fact that punishment terms against that individual seems daunting and horrendous to say the least. 3. The US government, in my humble opinion (I'm not coming to the government's defence at all), acted the way they should have acted. There may be information and sensitive subjects that we as civilians should not know. These information could very well spread panic and fear over the entire nation, and perhaps jeopardize national security. We as humans have secrets to keep. As a government that "supposedly" protects its own people, its secrets in amount surpasses that of all individuals. Perhaps the intelligence agencies should have revealed more information as to no compromise national security, and quell the curiosity and anger of the people. Keep in mind that the intelligence network of a world power is much, much larger than you can imagine. And if terrorists can really plan an attack of this scale, their intelligence network would be of similiar, if not, bigger scale. As well, with the advancement of modern computer technology, many opportunities and chances are available. There isn't much that can't be done with the miracle of computing. Trickery, after all, has been a human instinct since the beginning of mankind. My 2 cents.
