A House Cat Knows More Than The IBM Watson

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Steve Klinko, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    So in your World a Computer can have the Conscious Experience of Confidence. By your way of thinking, can a Computer Experience Pain?
     
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  3. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Self Awareness is not required for Awareness of what the Cat Knows. The Cat certainly has Information about things and the Conscious Experience of those things is the Knowing.
     
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  5. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    A neural network can experience pain, yes.
     
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  7. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I think you're just proving the point that there continues to be nothing within your threads beyond the definition you use, which in essence is nothing but a claim, but because you dress it up as a definition you refuse to support it. Hey ho.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    What does it mean when your car's computer flashes "low battery". Is it telling you that your battery needs recharging? It knows this from pure magic, or is it from pattern matching?

    Look up "interoception". For that matter, look up "exteroception".

    Collaborative Robotics:
    The Complexity of Mimicking Humans is Just the Beginning

    Complex Sensing Requirements
    Sensing Their Environment: Exteroception

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    Figure 1: This illustration depicts the sensory receptors: Seeing (eye), hearing (ear), smell (nose), taste (tongue), and touch (finger).
    Sensing Their Internal State: Interoception
    much more......

    https://www.mouser.in/applications/collaborative-robotics-complexity-mimicking-humans/

     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447

    self reporting error margin &/or variance range reporting

    humans are mostly the same the lower end value of humans(group think)

    remember all the Greed is geared to service a mechanism to adhere to what services a margin
    self reporting
    virtue signalling
    social trends
    cancel culture
    political affiliation trend moral absolutes
    etc etc
    its all possible to be programmed as a range variance outcome

    that does not make the computer aware or alive
    it makes it an outcome variable relative coefficient which is rendered into a colloquialism as "confidence" to service the group think sales talk of humans desiring to force an outcome regardless of no outcome(hello evangelical religion, cults, group-think's & observer effects)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    hhmmm ...

    it reads here like you have made the jump over the tracks to assign a scientific value to Conscious Experience
    [specifically based on stored data access &/or data matching]

    was that your intention ?
    am i reading your post correctly ?
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    if you put a child & a computer & a house cat in a room
    & you do not give them instructions
    & leave them alone
    which one will be the winner
    ?

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    do computers do this without being told ?

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    top right car panel interior
    looks fake
    note sun and weather bleaching on corners of the knobs suggest it has been sitting outside with no doors or roof for months
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    Self Awareness is not a Conscious Experience? Riddle me that one, please.....

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  13. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    If you think a Neural net can Experience Pain, then you are operating on pure Belief and Superstition.
     
  14. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    Are you seriously saying that there is no difference between Self Awareness and Awareness of a particular piece of Knowledge that you might have?
     
  15. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    I know you are just messing with me but here goes anyway: The Car obviously Knows nothing. If you could Connect Consciousness tot he Car then it would be Aware, and then you might be able to say it Knows something.
     
  16. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    I am simply making a distinction between Information/Data and Knowledge. Knowledge is the internal Experience of the Information/Data by a Conscious Mind. A Computer cannot have Knowledge of the stored Information/Data because there is no Conscious Mind to Experience it. This is just an exercise for thinking about what Consciousness could be.
     
  17. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    Where did I say Self Awareness is not a Conscious Experience?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    A program is a form of knowledge, by your own words.
    When the car flashes Low Fuel it knows and is aware that fuel is low, it is just not consciously aware of these facts. It is called interoception, a control mechanism.
    The rest (consciousness) is all a matter of degree, and IMO, that is what you are missing.

    The eye used to be a light sensitive patch allowing for distinction between light and dark. The eagle's eye is the ultimate evolution of this proto-pattern of "vision".

    Evolution of the eye

    hydras
    https://www.newscientist.com/definition/evolution-of-the-eye/#

    It proves Evolution from self-referential sensitivity to self-aware consciousness.
     
  19. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    You obviously disagree that Consciousness is needed for Knowledge. You must believe that when the Thermostat in your home turns on the Compressor and Blower, that the Thermostat Knows that the Temperature is above Setpoint. To say the Thermostat Knows this, is a convenient shorthand, but I think (I hope) you know that the Thermostat Knows nothing in the same sense as a Conscious Mind would Know.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    Of course not, and no one has made that claim. You assumed that I meant in the same sense, but you were wrong in that assumption.

    Does an elastic band have knowledge of it original state. Stretch it out and see how it spontaneously returns to its original length. It is called "elastic memory" and is a form of unconscious knowledge.

    Shape-memory materials

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    by Chris Woodford. Last updated: February 13, 2021.
    ........more.
    https://www.explainthatstuff.com/how-shape-memory-works.html
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,634
    Nope. It's clear from their behavior. You determine if a network experiences pain if it learns to avoid that behavior, whether it's an animal or an artificial network.
     
  22. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    435
    Except ANNs do not have the capability for manifesting Behavior. ANNs are Pattern Matching Algorithms computing on a sets of Configured Weights (Numbers in memory). Your statement is Incoherent.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    A few papers for you to peruse:

    Criticality in Neural Network Behavior and Its Implications for Computational Processing in Healthy and Perturbed Conditions
    The Simplest Maximum Entropy Model for Collective Behavior in a Neural Network
    Testing Neural Network Models of Memory with Behavioral Experiments
     

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