A message from Mom

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting events experienced by a skeptic after the death of his mother. Skeptics of the paranormal made believers are always noteworthy as they demonstrate that belief in the paranormal does not necessarily precede experiences of it. In this case, the skeptic still struggles between belief and doubt, finding no explanation for the events that he and his wife experienced. See what you think.
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    "Guest post: A message from mom
    I received an interesting testimonial from commenter GregL, who previously contributed a post composed soon after his mother's passing. At the time, struggling with his own skepticism, he wrote, "Like a flame dancing in the wind I now move between despair and hope, a dichotomy of opposing beliefs. Probably never to be resolved until my own passing. I hope I see her there."

    It appears he received some additional evidence that pushed the needle at least somewhat in the direction of belief..."

    Continued here:

    https://michaelprescott.typepad.com...og/2018/12/guest-post-a-message-from-mom.html
     
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  3. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    What I have always found strange about anything paranormal is how primative the technology is on the other side

    But to be fair we have not exactly improved our technology to try to communicate with the other side

    Even those who claim to speak to the dead still rely on 'one knock for yes, two for no' level technology

    Seems like progress in paranormal communications is dead and no sign of a defibrillator to resurrect in sight

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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe the paranormal isn't a trained dog to jump thru your ever raised higher hoop. Maybe it is just what it is and must work thru the obvious constraints tied to a non-physical entity making physical contact with the living.
     
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  7. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    Just maybe the paranormal does not exist hence cannot be trained

    A non physical entity working through the obvious constraints. Ummmm maybe

    Care to list said 'obvious constraints' as they are not obvious to me but it appears you have some idea of what they are?

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  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe...the invitation to imagine the unimaginable☺
    I suggested that a squirell you saw was a paper bag and you rejected my maybe.

    The paranormal will always remain hidden and vague and made up so why bother☺
    How are you MR I do hope you are well.
    Alex
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I'm glad Mom didn't carry on a complete conversation. After you've said "Cathy", what more is there to say?

    As far as Mom walking around in her walker, how else is a ghost suppose to walk around?

    This is the evidence that we have been waiting for and the news media have just kept this quiet for the most part. They don't want use to know about this evidence.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Doin ok. How are things in the outback?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    For example, someone asked me in another thread where a soul or spirit would derive its energy. I thought about it and speculated that the quantum vacuum would supply more than enough energy to support such a conscious disembodied entity. First, take a look at how much energy is just needed to support a living functioning brain:

    "According to Scientific American, studies indicate that the human brain consumes about 12 watts, or an equivalent of 12 joule seconds. A year is 60 sec. times 60 min. x 24 hr. x 365 days equals 31,536,000 seconds. Multiply by 12 joules and you get just shy of 378 and one half million joules per year. It might sound like a lot, but it is about what a new LED bulb uses over the same year."--- https://www.quora.com/How-much-energy-in...-in-a-year

    12 joules or watts a second isn't a lot of energy. So where could a soul, which probably requires much less energy than a brain does, get its source of energy? I speculate that the quantum vacuum could supply more than enough energy to support it. Here's how much vacuum energy is in empty space:

    "...in both quantum electrodynamics (QED) and stochastic electrodynamics (SED), consistency with the principle of Lorentz covariance and with the magnitude of the Planck constant suggest a much larger value of 10 to the 113 joules per cubic meter."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy

    That's alot of free energy just sitting around in empty space! I don't think a soul would have any problem supporting itself on this amount of energy. It would also explain the source of energy for poltergeist activity, haunting phenomena, and ufos as well.

    This is all assuming a spirit even needs physical energy at all. Maybe it doesn't and empowers itself innately. Or maybe it only needs energy to interact with physical reality. Many paranormal investigators know that camera batteries are sapped of their energy during investigations. Cold spots also appear, suggesting the sapping of heat energy from the ambient air.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Perfect.
    Alex
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe God is hiding because He wants us to have faith. Convenient excuses are easy.
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No excuses here. I just cited compelling evidence for the paranormal. Which btw has nothing to do with God.
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    These people also demonstrate, in presenting their skepticism, a presupposed willingness to believe. This, of course, leads to a larger question of what skepticism actually is. To wit, I recall telling a story about my hollowcore bedroom door making weird noises, noting↗:

    But, yeah, it's kind of ironic. Not only is it temporally close to your much more entertainingly curious experience, but also I enjoy the irony of never once, when I cared about such things enough to spend nights out with friends chasing ghosts, having an experience requiring me to dig for an answer like that. We did, actually, solve a couple folklore mysteries; the bloody sink at the church, for instance―the rust stains, a leaking faucet, and yeah, in the right moonlight it looked absolutely terrifying. That was about as tough as it got, though.

    In any given moment, is my skepticism trying to convince that an event is not fortean? Why should it? When I want to know what sound my door just made, I start with the scientific, including the proposition that the more I learn the more I realize I do not know. Notice, for instance, that no skeptic called out the lack of scientific evidence:

    Most likely, a very slight drop in air pressure compelled the door to swing inward, but in the end was insufficient to create smooth motion, resulting in the door repeatedly exceeding a certain threshold, overcoming friction and thus allowing it to move slightly, resulting in a rare sound from the hinges that resonates slightly through the door. I mean, that's the explanation I'm going with, but scientifically, I can't tell you how it works―I only know it's possible.

    The reason scientific arguments don't object to my speculation of scientific explanation is that it falls within the range of possibility, is pretty damn simple in contexts we might describe by invoking the names Ockham and LaPlace, and anyone wishing to be more precise or correct will pretty much have to cross the boundary where I stopped and start writing down all the math.

    Furthermore, if we consider my tone in describing the episode to a friend, it's because we were considering something about a ufo, but then she told me about one of those creepy, scary, not ghostly, who the hell moments that turned out to be a gecko, its prey, and a window screen. For people going through the processes of discovery we were, well, if I think of ghosts, it's, "No wonder people once thought of ghosts and such." There comes a point when my friend knows this sound, and that it isn't actually an intruder stalking the outside of the house, but the question remains what it actually is, and it turns out to be a small reptile killing its prey on a window screen. Between opportunity of witness and finding the solution can take a long, long time; at some point, no wonder people wondered about ghosts and demons and such.

    Compared to older beliefs, our skepticism turns, once immediate known factors of agency are ruled out—e.g., no other humans in the house, and the cat is where the cat is, and thus didn't do it without having behaved extraordiarily extraordinarily. Yes, really, squared.

    At that point, we turn to unknown natural agency. In my friend's case, a gecko. In my case, a known phenomenon of air pressure in this particular house; thinking back, the timing is even right for significant temperature shifts in air volumes adjacent to the phenomenon.

    Prescott's tale, by comparison, includes testimony showing a predisposition toward belief. This tendency would functionally alter the form of addressing skepticism. For some, skepticism is like a ritual obligation.

    Look at the language: "Mom was gone. The house seemed preternaturally empty" (qtd. in Prescott↱; italic accent added).

    The tale reads like it's written for Encyclopedia Brown fans, riddled throughout with antiskeptical clues: Why is the intercom monitor still on? Is the system entirely wireless, or is there a part attached by wire to a power pack and sending unit? When was this, by the way, compared to "radio" signals and does the thing use Bluetooth? Where are which electrical lines compared to the nightstand that is probably not particularly distant from a wall? How does the furnace heat the house? Where are what water pipes? How is the home built? Where is the home located, and what is the profile of temperature differences 'twixt sunset and midnight in July?

    The answer is wrapped up in those questions. We just don't have the information, and some of it we probably would never be able to reproduce without mindbogglingly extraordinary evidence

    Beyond that, we live in a world when people easily mishear song lyrics and even lines of spoken dialogue in film and television, or even in simple conversation. Again, Ockham is pretty straightforward: A person under emotional stress perceiving precisely what they want to hear, a prioritized signal one's brain is actually conditioned to send under certain circumstances, and is also well known to falsely send. It's the same reason we can hear our name spoken in a crowded, noisy room, even if whoever said it is talking to someone else; and it's the reason we think we might have heard our name when, in fact, it was a different word somewhat similar in its sound, or a simple combination of sounds. Neurotic expectation is extraordinarily powerful.

    The bursts of static have many potential causes. Cooperative and reinforcing neurotic expectations seeking relief from stress will affect perception and memory. And while the particulars are lost to history inasmuch as we cannot have a record of their brain chemistry in the moment, Ockham and LaPlace alike will both fall in with the mysteries of known behavior than unknown physics perpetually causing reported results that cannot be verified or reproduced.

    What doubt the witness expresses toward the end relies entirely wanting to believe. The witness quotes Dean Radin, and grants it credibility; this is not the sort of skepticism that is part of rational discourse, but, rather, checklist skepticism, a pretense undertaken as ritual obligation when believers or those desirous of a reason to believe try to put on a pantomime of credible skepticism. That is to say, the author's inner skeptic, as presented, is pretty weak.

    Thus: "Interesting events experienced by a skeptic", as you have it, is a description that only barely qualifies, at best, and according to a quasiritualistic checklist assertion of skepticism in service of belief; it's not a matter of "struggling with his own skepticism", as Prescott put it. As the would-be "skeptic"↱put it, he hopes for the outcome that defies skepticism. That context colors his entire report of events regarding the "message from Mom".

    Or maybe I'm missing a bit about skepticism as an identifier, if not identity. Are the declared skeptics—like atheists and agnostics, for instance—identifying as such because they think it matters to do so?

    Think of it this way: It's not about convincing that it isn't fortean; rather, I'll worry about the fortean when the evidence says so, and here's the thing about that: If the fortean is real, then I must prove it; to prove it, I must provide evidence that can be tested and measured. At the point we can test and measure it, it is not supernatural, but, rather, natural, and we're not engaging anything "para", but, rather, science.

    What you've brought us is a tale not of skepticism, but, rather, ego defense.
     
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I totally disagree with your overpersonalized attempt to psychoanalyze someone you don't even know. The guy says he's a skeptic, and I take him at his word. Though evidently not as much of one after the events following his mother's passing. As I said, skeptics turned believers demonstrate that belief in the paranormal does not necessarily precede experiences of such. And that makes a compelling case for the reality of the paranormal. Not that bangings from an empty room and a voice on a baby monitor didn't already,
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  17. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    Very strange the (compelling) process, from skeptic to believer, does not appear to work the other way around

    Prove, or at least TRY, to a believer that what ever it is they claim is paranormal is something mundane and the 'ya but's' start

    No mundane explanation is safe from a 'ya but'

    But skeptics are a push over. Confront a skeptic with a single weird unexplained noise and BINGO they turn into a Ghostbuster with a sideline of UFO crop circles explanations

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  18. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! Maybe that's because a mundane-caused event doesn't prove the paranormal doesn't exist but a paranormal-caused event does prove the paranormal exists. That's the unfortunate result of trying to prove a negative.
     
  19. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    Please can you list the top 10 (paranormal-caused event) which (does prove the paranormal exists)?

    Hope you are happy that I am asking for proof of a positive(s)

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  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Go thru the 30 or so threads I've already posted evidencing ghosts and the paranormal. You can start with this one.
     
  21. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    Arrrh the invisible non existent one
    Yep that will do

    It appears you missed read my post

    I requested a top 10 paranormal events which PROVE (the 30 plus stories you have posted - don't think I've seen all of them - as I understand those I have seen, have not PROVED anything about the paranormal)

    So from the 1,000s available - pick 10 that PROVE

    I am not going to burden you with requesting reference to the scientific published papers

    Now why would I be kind like that?

    Because I know you cannot provide even one paranormal event which proves the paranormal exist

    Hence not a single scientific paper exist which provides details of the existence of the paranormal

    Over to you

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  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    No..I'm not jumping thru any hoop for your troll ass. You have access to dozens of my threads providing compelling evidence of the paranormal. Within those threads you'll find even more posted cases of paranormal contact. If that's not enough for you, then 10 more won't make any difference.
     
  23. Michael 345 Home just over a week still jet lag sleepy Valued Senior Member

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    You love that word

    Problem is you use it incorrectly

    If compelling, even in one instance, there would be a scientific paper out every week trying to solve exactly what the paranormal is and how it operates

    Strangely though that would take what ever was being examined out of the paranormal and put it into the 'normal but currently unknown mechanism'

    Somewhat like Dark Matter

    Wait with anticipation next post

    Not with any expectation of the paranormal being shown to exist

    Much more interested if you avoid "compelling" in the post

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