A Model For Eliminating / Confirming Time Dialation

Fine, I only replied to say that you cannot use it to transfer information faster than the speed of light, which was suggested by 2inquisitive and then acknowledged by MacM (who saw in it another reason to bash on relativity). That is all. I did not intend to go further.

Yes, but only for observers who know the outcome of the experiment. From the instant you measure ONE of the photons, you know, by entanglement, what the other photon would give as a result if you were to measure that photon.

The problem some people have is when you can put this other photon 20 lightyears away. If they are still entangled, you have "instant" information of a possible outcome of an experiment that is 20 lightyears away.

However, the observer which is standing next to the other photon does not know this, he knows nothing until he performs the measurement himself, or waits 20 years until you transfered him the result of your measurement.

In that sense, the information transfer by entanglement is is "local", you know it, but noone else. In that sense, it also does not violate any relativistic limitation. It is like one of those "a shadow can move faster than the speed of light" phenomena which at first sight seems to contradict relativity, but when looked at more closely, is perfectly consistent.

Bye!

Crisp

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

This would seem to be correct. But the difference would be that you must estblish your communication net work at sub-c but any future communication could be FTL.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Crisp,

That was not the basis of posting at all. I really don't care if it is consistant or inconsistant with Relativity. I am interested only in the potential to make use of the technology.

From what you just said above it seems you are saying the message can be sent FTL but the receiver doesn't know he has a message or when to check for a message. Is that correct? If so it seems Relativists are abscuring the problem by saying information can't be sent FTL. It would seem in fact that it can. Readability or receipt of such message is the current limitation.

That would appear to theoretically be eliminated by having a series of entangled particles that the receiver checks at a fixed period and have an FTL trigger of that string to alert the receiver that he had a message and to read the entangled file when the carrier series indicates a change (flag) of status.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

MacM,

Measurement, of any sort, destroys the entanglement. You cannot poll your particle to see when it changes, because the first such measurement will destroy its entanglement. No, there is no way to poll it without destroying its entanglement. I strongly advise you to actually read or learn about entanglement before jumping to conclusions about what relativists (also known more simply as 'physicists') say or don't say about it. I also know that's just wishful thinking.

- Warren

 

chroot, you will be interested in this. Information has already been transferred AND
RETAINED by quantum entanglement.

"Professor Rainer Blatt, of the University of Innsbruck, told BBC News Online: "This is a milestone.

"We are able to teleport in a deliberate way - that is, at the push of a button. This has been done before, but not in such a way that you can keep the information there at the end."

Professor Blatt's team, an Austrian-US group, performed the teleportation on calcium ions. The Nist team in Boulder, Colorado, used ions of the element beryllium.

Despite this and some differences in the experimental methods used by the two groups, both teams reached similar values of fidelity - around 0.75."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3811785.stm

 

2inquisitive,

No information is being trasmitted faster than light in that experiment.

- Warren

 

chroot, all they have to do is separate the entangled ions by a larger distance so
the transfer could be timed. The information was passed between unconnected,
entangled ions. Why would you deny the transfer was not instantanious?

 

2inquisitive,

The state is teleported 'instantaneously,' but you cannot choose which state the local particle will wind up in -- so you cannot transmit any information.

- Warren

 

Step 1: A pair of entangled ions are created: B and C
Step 2: The state to be teleported is created in ion A
Step 3: One ion from the pair - in this case B - is entangled with A and both are measured
Step 4: The result of this measurement is sent to ion C
Step 5: The state of C is now the same as that created for A

 

2inquisitive,

You cannot control the result of the measurement at step 3. I have no idea why you're arguing with me, but I assume it's because you really have no idea what you're talking about, aside from what you read in articles like this one. Trust me, quantum entanglement does not provide a mechanism for sending information instantaneously.

- Warren

 

Read step 5. The state of ion A, created before the teleportion took place, was
transmitted to ion C. Are you saying they didn't know the state of ion A beforehand?

 

No, I'm saying that there's no way for the remote recipient to know that the teleportation has even happened until the sender calls him on the telephone to tell him. Once again, you cannot send any information faster than light with entanglement. Period.

- Warren

 

Just call me unappeased. Period.

 

I don't care how appeased you are. Go educate yourself.

- Warren

 

Hello chroot,

I understand everything you said above but that doesn't address the issue.

They can now "set" the entangled condition they want. They can also create groups of entangled particles; which means an array of 2's, 4's, 6s, 8's, etc sets of particles can be arranged in rows and columns and their number mean a particular letter.

The simplest idea would seem to be an array that formed a series of binary codes.

Therefore if you set a series as ALL spin-up entangled particles as testable flags and examine 1 per hour, when you see one change state you would know you had a message and then go to the entangled array file to poll it and see which particles have changed state. That series of binary codes or in a more complex array system group numbers could represent alphanumeric characters and numbers.

 

This appears to be behind the times. The latest I was reading was the ability to select the entangled state as spin-up, spin-down or super position. By having a preselected state any change of state then become readable.

 

So you're also of the opinion that we now have superluminal communication, eh, MacM?

What you claim, the prospect of selecting the state of the particles involved in an entanglement, is impossible -- the very concept of entanglement is that of quantum superposition!

- Warren

 

Ah, but there is and that was my point about sending a series of test particles. When you seen one (I will refer to it as a messenger) of the messengers change sate you then know you have received a message and read the file.

 

There you go again ch. It doesn't appear his education has any bearing on the issue.

 

His education is crucial to this issue -- he's misinterpreting an article from the popular press, and assuming his misinterpretation is fact. This happens all the time among laypeople. He wouldn't make such a misinterpretation if he was better educated and knew what the author of the popular article was TRYING to convey.

- Warren