A new approch to mental illness [take 2]

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Quantum Quack, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    What started me on it was when I read of a successful "Saturated Fat only" diet years ago, where high levels of saturated fat proved to be quite successful in reducing bodily fat.

    And I thought WTF!!!??
    [video=youtube;vWz9VN40nCA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWz9VN40nCA[/video]

    Reference to 1981 then on to the famous and hugely successful Physical Milk campaign [1986-ish]

    Then I realized that the low fat/salt campaigns where incredibly successful as a marketing campaign strategy, directly playing on the fears of the consumer... after all in the consumers eye, fat=fat doesn't it? Or fat = cholesterol doesn't it? Of course we now know that cholesterol is produced by the body naturally and would probably find it's production is more survival/stress related than dietary related.
    Prior to 1986ish the super market shelves had very little poly unsaturated salt free products. In fact the fat free campaign probably led to the birth of the polyunsaturated oil [spread] market. Cofra [saturated lard] as a product went from number 1 to almost oblivion. Fish and chips [ deep fry] started to taste weird.[Gosh, how nice were they when cooked in natural saturated lard?]..and our pandemic of obesity apparently became an issue.
     
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  3. Mathers2013 Banned Banned

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    The only way you could know if someone is mentally ill is if you are mentally ill yourself. Just like gaydar.

    "IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE"

    Ian Hislop
     
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  5. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    There is truth in this, in that unless you walk a mile in another person's shoes, you may not be able to fully empathize and understand. For example, say you were on the only person in the room with a toothache and nobody else ever had one. Would their advice be perfect for the occasion? The answer is there is much detachment. Say they said all you need to do is control the pain with your mind since in their empathy this is the solution. If you don't do as expected, I guess there is something deeper wrong. There will be a detachment, with ignorance acting like an expert.

    i would like to see the therapists and anyone who makes a living off the care of the mentally ill, be induced into these various states. This way they can see if their approach can cure themselves, or whether their approach is too detached to be useful beyond making a living off the suffering of others. In the tooth ache example, we drill a tooth and let them feel the pain to see if their can control it , like prescribed. Once their head is clear, we have innovations.
     
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Only if it's more subtle, like bi-polar, OCD, schizoaffective, unwanted thoughts syndrome... many mental illnesses are easy to spot, people are good at that.
     
  8. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Heh. Not gonna happen.

    A part - perhaps a big part - of giving advice and attempting to help others has to do with upholding particular social/group norms, and the self-image of the advice-giver, whereby it is considered irrelevant whether the advice can actually help the person in need.
     
  9. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    excellent episode, thanks.

    well I wasn't wrong then...ah....

    I note from that program the following:
    The above typifies the way this issue and that of nicotine consumption is being promoted as good science. IMO.. terrible, disingenuous and downright dangerous.
    and as with approaches to mental health terribly fear based, and riddled with "presumption science" [science primarily based on presumption and not the scientific method per see]
     
  11. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I used to joke by saying that:
    The cause of cancer can be nailed down to the use of plastic toilet seats. Such is science driven by co-relation rather than causation. [Most persons suffering cancer have used a plastic toilet seat, some more often than others]
    Come to think on it, possibly the use of plastics, as in "paint, plates, table ware, car dash boards, show recesses, toilet seats, in fact we are surrounded by plastics.. eh? possibly a cause of cancer for sure...?? maybe??

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    The problem with this approach is sometimes the social norm is the pathology that helps creates the problems. For example, society accepts certain behavior as natural. Yet many of these "natural behaviors" require a lot of prosthesis to prop up, which implies it is not natural, since nature does not need or use mops and props.

    As an analogy, we have animals in the zoo. This is not natural, however, if we have enough zoo keepers to compensate we can create an illusion of an animal in a natural situation. If we took away the zoo keepers, it falls on its face for what it is, which is unnatural. I asked myself, what social norms, called natural, are only sustainable if we have zoo keepers (medical industries) propping it up, and could this social norm be part of the problem?

    Picture the brain as control system genetically tuned to natural. This evolved over millions of years. We willfully chose unnatural, propped up to appear natural, due to the sales pitch. Now the control system is out of the genetic control set point.

    What you happen if we stopped all medication for STD's, for example. We will let nature run its course to see what is left standing. This is called natural so all should be left, right? Or we can add zookeepers to prop it up, since this is big business for many health car industries, and with all the props in place, make it appear to be natural (pay no heed to the man behind the curtain pulling the strings). Empirical science will support this. The brain knows the difference since it evolved naturally and unnatural will shift the set point.
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. Being healthy by the standards of a sick society is no health at all.


    This still leaves open the question of where the unnatural came from, if the default is the natural.
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Good points IMO.
    Just to extend on what you raise:
    "Using the current medical paradigm."

    In a natural environment there would always be a certain element of eccentricity, in regards to belief and behavior associated. In some cases that eccentricity is so extreme that society has had to take action to curb it so as to restore and maintain a sense of order. IN doing so apply artificial or non-natural means.
    Example Unqualified Opinion Only:
    In the case of mental illnesses such as Paranoid Schizophrenia.
    If we generally assume that this condition is significantly genetically inherited we can say that if left natural a process of genetic stability could be maintained but only if those afflicted were allowed to pass [die] with out "propagating" their genetic material.
    With the advent of sophisticated medications those afflicted that would normally have not been able to propagate [ breed] are now currently able to do so. This means that the global human gene pool is being rapidly and exponentially overwhelmed with genetic strains that are predisposed to these mental health outcomes. [Where as, if left natural [ no artificial medication interventions ] the gene pool would remain relatively stable]
    Essentially what this means is that whilst medication has a strong short term "up side" it has a potentially devastating long term "down side"

    Example: 60 years ago [Prior to the re-discovery of Lithium (1949) as a mood stabilizer] very little "pill popping" was being done , today just about every one is popping a pill at least once a day. Drug dependency is popular and gaining in momentum. In another 10 years it could be speculated that the entire 1st and most of the 2nd world will be totally drug dependent to simply get through a day. [ I am using the term "Drug" broadly and includes placebo types, such as vitamin and nutritional supplement regimes]

    Alternative approaches that avoid or minimize artificial methods MUST be found to prevent the tragedy of all new borne children popping anti depressants or other psycho-tropic drugs being the "norm" in the not too distant future. IMO
     
  15. arauca Banned Banned

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    It is not a disaster and it was done at a penitentiary were I go once a weak . The environment in the penitentiary is more healthy now after it become smokeless
     
  16. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    The immediate air quality round you ? Maybe.

    I was referrring more to the psychological condition of hard core, long term crims.
     
  17. arauca Banned Banned

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    The population is near 4000 man , many have become religious . There are some gangs , but fighting is very seldom . ( the penitentiary is a maximum security ) The institution have all sort of religious services , volunteers like myself visit them at the cells ( not inside )
    In reality I don't see much hatred, In a way I can see the religious involvement is helping them with daily life.
     
  18. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    Ah .. OK.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    @Larkon,
    a response to the Catalysts program.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-...talyst-episode-could-result-in-deaths/5050866

    Accusations of crackpottery, directed towards qualified and practicing cardiologists who have nothing to gain financially [directly], immediately raises "validation" bells for me.

    Not surprising when you think about it given the scale of this fraud if it is proven to be a fraud.

    The same huge fear could be said to be associated with the mental health profession. [aka: with out medications the suicide rate and social trauma would increase] and be reasonably well founded IF no appropriate therapies and supports were provided instead.
     
  20. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    Very VERY true. Reminds of our countries leading brain surgeon .. what's his name .. Doctor Teo IIRC. A couple of years ago he came up with the observation that an inordinate percentage of brain operation he was doing, was for tumours on the left hand side of the brain of young teenage / early 20's girls. He said IIRC he was doing several a week. And he set out figures to that effect, and blamed the most likely cause as being mobile phone useage.

    Do you recall the attack upon him by the establishment ? It was stunning - and pathetic. Hitherto the most famous, competent, celebrated brain surgeon in the country, now attacked for stating the obvious.

    Anyhow - forgot if we mentioned this before .. Pt 2 of the program (Catalyst) is on this week. Must see !
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Mammon [ money] and ego wins over truth every time, didn't you know?
     
  22. Lakon Valued Senior Member

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    Most of the time, though I wouldn't say every time. There are people who are extremely wealthy and good.

    You know what I found out about those with a lot of money ? It just makes them more of what they are already are.

    If they are sick, sicker. If they are bad, badder. If they are good, better. If they are happy, happier. If they are sad, sadder. If they are greedy, greedier.

    Think of our Gina Reinhardt (sp ?) the worlds wealthiest woman - obese, and at loggerheads with her children for years now, aurguing over billions, in the highest courts in the land. The acrimony is going to last their lifetime. How would you be, your kids hating you for the rest of their lives ?
     
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Good thinking, and well observed IMO
     

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