A Request Directed to Sciforums' "Atheists"

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Tiassa, Mar 21, 2014.

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  1. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    (Not sure why I'm intervening... Never goes well for me... But hey ho...)

    To take umbrage with the use of "but" seems pedantic as much as it seems wrong.
    "Women are humans... but they're the ones who get to give birth to the offspring."
    Anything wrong with that statement?

    One could have used "and", but the "but" is to emphasise a difference between the label of "human" and the label of "woman". I.e. Not everything attributable to the label of woman is attributable to the label of human.
    The "but" was not to point out an exception to the identity of "human" but to express an addition to that identity that is borne solely by "woman".

    As such, GeoffP's usage seems fair and reasonable, as he was using it to promote such a difference.
    We start with the label of human, and the rights assigned to humans. And then, through the "but" we go on to explain some additional situations that also need to be taken into consideration when it comes to "woman" due to circumstances which they are sometimes found in that men can not be.

    Any issue taken with the statement by GeoffP thus seems, to me, to stem from something other than the mere language being used.

    But then that seems true of much of this thread so far... Both strands of it.
     
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  3. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    OK, yeah...Not really sure how this thread went from atheism, to abortion, but, whatever.

    Just my two cents...Yeah, I'm most likely gonna piss some of you off here...

    IMO, a woman has the right to abort whenever she so chooses.

    A fetus has no knowledge of the world, no awareness.

    Do any of you, have any recollection, of your time in the womb? Of course you don't. You were a non-being.

    My mother never wanted a child, I was an accident. But, she wasn't able to legally abort at the time.

    Obviously, if a woman comes to term, then there's no going back... But, IMO, until delivery, she the right to abort. Again, this is just my opinion.
     
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  5. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    You give humans an inch..... they will take a dry foot.
     
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  7. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Yikes!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    My earliest memory is around the age of 3.
     
  8. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    Too bad for you then, my dear! Be aware, be very aware!
     
  9. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    The thing is, a fetus IS aware inside the womb:

    That would be about the 6 month mark - beginning of the third trimester. This is part of why I feel that, if you haven't terminated by then, you shouldn't have the option to terminate without just cause as, at this point, the fetus IS capable of experiencing pain (as well as reacting to voices, sounds, etc as they continue to develop)
     
  10. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    I was drinking a glass of milk when I read your post...

    It blew out of my nose... Thanks for that.
     
  11. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    At least you weren't eating peas with that milk,eh?
     
  12. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Seems a reasonable position to me. Not evil, not woman-hating. You're not making any assumptions about a woman's ability to make decisions. I don't see the problem.
     
  13. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    Part of the issue is that there are some (especially the more hard-line religious folk) who feel that abortion at any time for any reason should be banned.
    Then, there are people (few and far between thank goodness) that view abortion as a "perfectly acceptable means of contraception" that should be available at any time.

    Obviously, these two groups tend to spark a lot of conflict.
     
  14. Gremmie "Happiness is a warm gun" Valued Senior Member

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    OK then, I stand corrected... But, let me ask you this...

    A woman gets pregnant... She neither wants a child, or is willing to care for it... She has to have it, because, why?. Adoption is always an option, this is true.

    I stand by what I said though... A woman has the right to abort. And, at times, it's actually to the benefit of the unborn child.

    I'm an atheist, yeah, the devil's spawn as it were... Sorry, just figured since this thread was actually supposed to be atheism, I'd throw that in there...
     
  15. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

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    In that case, she should have the abortion as early as possible - and then go on some serious contraceptives to ensure this doesn't happen again until she wants to have a child.
    However, if she waits to the third trimester or later, then adoption should be the go-to option - after all, at that point you would subject the fetus to pain and suffering (not to mention the horrors of what can happen if the abortion fails) and, honestly, if she has gone that long without doing something about it, then there is an air of irresponsibility about it. Granted, there are situations that would exempt one from this, but still.
     
  16. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Your buddy is a member of the latter group. I think It's wrong that she goes around calling people psychos over it.
     
  17. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    Except that it requires women to abandon control of their bodies.

    I suppose it's not technically hating women to not consider them full persons, but it doesn't seem all that moral.
     
  18. Bells Staff Member

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    Hu.. That's interesting..

    What you quoted:

    And here is what I found on a wiki page..


    Could you please link your source?

    The wiki article then goes on to say:

     
  19. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Of course she has the right to abort. But I think there should be a cut-off point, barring obvious circumstances.
     
  20. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

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    It is not the use of the word alone that is the problem. The problem is with the idea that women are human beings but we can't allow them all the freedoms and rights of persons.
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

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    Who says they don't have all the freedoms and rights of persons?
     
  22. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

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    I am a woman and I consider myself a full person. I also consider a third trimester fetus a person, too. Quite the dilemma, NOT! We all have limits put on us, male and female. Why is the female special in this regard?
     
  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    "honestly, if she has gone that long without doing something about it,"

    As long as shes healthy... is 3 more monthes gonna hurt.???
     
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