A Request Directed to Sciforums' "Atheists"

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Tiassa, Mar 21, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,562
    You just sit back, relax, have a beer while watchig the cricket and leave that up to me.

    We'll all be better off.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. quinnsong Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,621
    The women and men that feel this way about pregnancy and child-rearing should abstain from it, you did, and with that POV it is a good thing!
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,530
    In case no one else will answr... i will:::

    The choise to abort or not shoud be up to the woman.!!!
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Yes, but shouldn't that choice be made sooner rather than later?
     
  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,530
    Sooner the beter as far as im concerned.!!!
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,342
    Because late in the game there are two lives to worry about.
    In Denmark abortion is illegal after the 12th week unless there are extenuating circumstances (health risk, rape, birth defect etc) Would you be OK with such a law being passed here?
    Sorry but that's a dumb argument; it's the "if you don't care about everything equally your position is invalid" abgle. The complementary argument is just as valid (and just as dumb) - why is it that some pro-abortion people care so much about a women's right to choose, but don't really care about the millions of women sold into sexual slavery?
    Agreed, all those things will both reduce the need for abortion and give women a more equal footing.
     
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    Just a reminder: let's all be nice.
     
  11. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    So do we have a consensus then, that early term abortion needs to be more available and easier to obtain as well as a need for better education. We also need to get the religious folk to butt out of other people's business and if they don't like abortion then they simply don't have to get one. Once the fetus has developed to the point it is viable, such as the 24th to 28th week, extra consideration must be given to the life in question
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,342
    Good summary overall.
     
  13. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,530
    We have a consensus of at least 2 on that

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Well... religious folk have a right to fight for ther views.!!!

    As long as the choice is still the womans wit no hoops to jump thru... an proper health care is legal... me an you have come to an agreement.!!!
     
  14. Motor Daddy ☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼☼ Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,105
    If their view is that a woman should not get an abortion, and they are a pregnant woman, then they know what to do...or rather what not to do. The first thing they shouldn't do is have an abortion. The second thing they shouldn't do is try to force their beliefs on someone else. That would be akin to trying to force me to believe there is a God, and then trying to pass laws that defend that concept.
     
  15. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Well what is it that you think I said or meant? First of all I was not speaking of "late term abortions" in relationship to Denmark, you just have to go back and read the post. What I said is that abortion isn't a controversial topic in Denmark. If you paid attention at all to what I have posted on LTA its that its a rare occurrence and there are a variety of reasons why they occur, most of those reasons are fixable but some of them are not. But how can you fix the main reasons for LTA if providers, education and economic
    access are denied?

    Why would is there a fight against abortion if its at a 30 year low? Its not because there are people who want to limit the amount of abortions, its because they want zero abortions. Otherwise why rage on about a dwindling practice? Again you seem to think that I was solely discussing LTA with Billvon. I was not. We were discussing why there are people who oppose abortion for women in general. LTA is a distraction as far as I'm concerned because if they fixed the issue of economic and practical access LTA would become even more rare. I mean have you ever considered why a woman would wait so long to have an abortion? Its not only impractical to do so but far more dangerous. I think you should go back and read my posts. And yes I do think that the concern and focus on the fetus is a fetish when you have children going to bed hungry and living in poverty. I do think the focus and concern for the fetus is a fetish when the life of the woman is a secondary consideration. Sorry if you don't agree but that's my conclusion. Its a morbid fetish I agree but one nonetheless.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Is there a question there?
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,342
    Well, it's not a controversial topic in Taliban-controlled countries either, but I don't think that sort of society is a good goal. One of the reasons it IS a controversial topic here is that we have more freedoms than most other countries do - and I think that's a good thing, even if the discussion sometimes gets rancorous.
    Well, women here have a lot more freedom to have abortions than they do in most other countries, so one could ask the same question - why do the pro-choice people rage on about a battle they've already won? Because, again, both sides feel strongly. I'm sure you would not take kindly to someone suggesting that you must have an anti-child fetish to be pushing for legal abortions when they are already legal.
     
  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Aborted based on what? I agree that no one can judge quality of life for another person and that those with Down Syndrome can live content lives but what does that have to do with abortion per se? Are there parents who would abort a child with down syndrome? Probably. Are there a lot of people aborting because of Down Syndrome? Probably not. Are most abortions based on the potential health of the child? No since most abortions are done within the first two months of inception women are basing their decisions on other considerations.
     
  19. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,087
    That's pretty much it. Doesn't seem too contentious, or even interesting, does it? That's the tyranny of the middle ground: nothing exciting ever happens.
     
  20. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    I guess more than anything I want to know what their criteria was for deciding that the fetus cannot, in fact, feel pain, even though all the physical requirements are there - it seems more a question of, again, how does one define pain - is it a physical sensation, or an emotive response.
     
  21. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    But if that's our position, how will we ever live up to the claims of misogyny?
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Yes and I doubt there are women aborting who don't worry about "2 lives". What I find amazing is that anyone would find a 2 month fetus of equal concern to the woman carrying it. I say its only of equal concern if the woman is planning on having it. I would be okay with a law limiting abortion after 12 weeks (health risks, rape and birth defects taken into consideration of course) if it were safe, free and readily available as it is in Denmark yes. Wonder why there isn't this problem of women desperate to have late term abortions in Denmark? Because health care is free and available to all. A woman, or even a teenager, can have an abortion on demand no questions asked. Now tell me do you think that could be accomplished in the US without all the agonizing groaning? I doubt it.

    No sorry its not an argument at all. I'm saying i cannot take someone's concern for a fetus seriously as they whine about life and suffering children when they completely ignore issues of poverty and child hunger. What I can glean from you reaction to my statement is that pro abortion people care about "life" period. Right? Or is it only the life of unborn children? Do these people care about unnecessary killing of "life" when it comes to sending young men away to fight silly wars? How about when it comes to the death penalty? Or is it just fetus fetish?
     
  23. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Your confusing my point. I was indicating my confusion on why the abortion issue is so controversial here in the US and not simply a case of what the individual woman needs or doesn't need. I used Denmark as an example of a place where we wouldn't be having such a heated argument about a woman's right to choose to have an abortion. I didn't say Denmark allowed late abortions, I just said abortion isn't controversial in Denmark. Now you bring up the Taliban? Why?

    Actually I don't think you have as many freedoms as the Danes but that's besides the point. I also think its kind of a false point to speak of freedoms when those who oppose abortions are arguing a denial of freedom of abortion to women. Discussion is a good thing perhaps. If it leads to clarity. If it isn't simply navel gazing. If it leads to compromise and reasonable legislation and protections. Otherwise discussion doesn't lead to clarity its just a means to obfuscate an issue.

    Women have more freedoms to have an abortion than many countries. Agreed. But that's what we are talking about isn't it? That women are free to abort and those who wish to take that freedom away?

    I prefer puppies so maybe I do have an anti-child fetish. LOL
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page