A world with a loving God.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,438
    Of course; no equality was claimed. I just pointed out that you are lying again.

    Since you forget anything you said that doesn't support your religious agenda, here is the thread:

    Halc: A human without an arm is damaged, but still human.
    Billvon: Absolutely. He is still 100% human. To use Jan's terminology, his "body suit" is incomplete, but his mind (what wears the suit) is not.
    Jan: That’s not my terminology dude.
    Jan (from a few days back): "These body suits are perfectly complete in their design."

    You brought up "body suit" as a way to separate the mind from the body. The mind is what makes us human; the body suit is just the meat that supports the mind. It's a reasonably good term.

    Absolutely. The design flaws cause defects.
    Given that we spend billions of dollars trying to fix those flaws - they are absolutely NOT accepted. At best we live with them when we can't fix them.
    And women were not designed to pee their pants every time they laugh. Children were not designed to choke on food and die. Adults were not designed for their backs to fail. Those are design flaws too.
    Nope. Evolution does not produce perfection; it produces what works (barely.) Which is what we have now. And in fact it will never, ever produce someone that lives forever - because as soon as any organism lives forever (or even comes close) evolution slows and stops.
    Yes. So are wars, and terrorism, and rape, and slavery. Those are part of "the human condition" brought about by our flaws - our angers and our lusts and our greed. They have been with us forever and will be with us forever. But just because they exist does not mean they are accepted.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    No.
    It couldn’t work any better.
    Just because we desire a non human body doesn’t mean our desires would be in our best interest.
    We don’t all suffer every illness, or inability going. So there is a possibility you could slip accidentally and break your arm, and there’s the possibility you could never experience a broken arm. So possibility is there.
    So what. Nothing in that list renders you non human. In fact the desire to be perfect is a trait that humans have, if they want to. Another signature of the Almighty God you don’t accept. Perhaps!

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    No they can’t.
    They only think they can.
    That’s fine.
    You believe what you want.
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes it could, as has been carefully explained to you several times by several different people.

    This the point where I stop feeding the troll.
     
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  7. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Without getting personal, all I can ask about that is if you have had any issues with your health or body which have been pointed out here as flaws in the design? If so, how has your doctor explained it? If your doctor has explained it as a common problem with the human body due to evolutionary changes, would you accept that?
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    (Q):

    Jan doesn't believe in evolution.
     
  9. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, but I wonder if Jan would reject his own trusted family doctors explanations. I'd like to be the proverbial fly on the wall with that one.
     
  10. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    199
    When God was thinking of a mode of transport for one of his best life forms(bacteria), he came up with plants and animals among many other ways.
     
  11. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You may believe it’s reasonably good, but it’s not my terminology.
    You’re entitled to your opinion and wishful thinking.
    There’s nothing wrong with trying to fix ailments, and physical injuries. And there’s nothing wrong with trying attain perfection. That is all part and parcel of human beings. From individuals to financed organisation.
    They’re able to do it either by choice, or accidentally. Yes they were.
    Here he goes with the “children”. Bringing in the big guns.
    The Eeeeeemotionss!
    Accidents happen.
    Finish this for me... “to err is...”
    Err...Yes they were!

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    Which is what human beings have always had.
    At what point in time will nature produce a wishful thinking type of perfect human being.
    What is your understanding of a flawless human being, and where did you get that understanding?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  12. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Firstly, there’s no need to get personal. We’re just having a chat.
    Secondly I have ailments like every other human being. My doctor tells me what it is. At no time does he start crying about “imperfect design”. Plus there’s no need to bring up evolutionary changes as it makes no difference to the human being.
     
  13. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Explanation of what?
     
  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    As I mentioned, I wasn't trying to get personal and was only interested in whether or not you had any of the issues and if you accepted what your doctor told you about them if the doctor was explaining the issues in evolutionary terms. I didn't need to know the issues, that's personal for you.

    The explanation of the issue, for example if it were a lower back problem, the doctor would impart that the human body was not meant to be in an upright position.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    17,438
    They are literally your words.
    One that you share.

    Will you deny that, or do I have to go back once again and show you your own words?
    That is exactly right. No one accepts the defects as "that's what God wanted." They try to mitigate the problems those defects caused (for example, through insulin.)
    Ah, so women were designed to have their pelvic floors damaged by childbirth such that they become incontinent.
    Can't answer that one without some serious cognitive dissonance, can you?
    Never . Evolution doesn't work like that.
    There will never be one - but we can get much closer than the faulty collection of parts we have now. I can think of five "simple" changes we could make right now that would improve human beings. (Simple is in quotes because there is nothing simple about changing a genome.)
     
  16. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Okay.
    That would be his opinion.
    As far as anyone can see, humans walk upright, unless they are unable.
     
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You are seriously delusional if you believe that
    Do what you like.
    You lost this debate ages ago.
    You’re now in twitch mode, before you finally stop moving.
    They weren’t designed for that, but if it happens then their body can go there.
    It’s funny how some people Eventually always use children, in terrible situations to win hearts and minds. I think it’s pathetic.
    So can I.
    I’m sure every single thinking human being in the world has a wish list. But it doesn’t alter the fact. We are human beings. To be a human being, you have to be complete.
     
  18. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    What scientists "can see" is that humans did not always walk upright and know that back pain and other skeletal problems are relatively common in modern humans, that they are an unfortunate side effect of walking upright. Distributing all our weight on just two limbs can have painful consequences, like lower back pain, slipped disks, arthritis in hips and knees, and collapsed foot arches.
     
  19. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Some people and animals are born with horrendous genetic defects.
     
  20. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I know.
     
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Not all scientists see it that way.
    Some scientists see the problems stemming from things like a lack of exercise, putting pressure on the spine through sitting in a slump posture, smoking, obesity, and stuff like that. I think that’s a more simpler, and most likely explanation.
    It may be a healthier approach as well, in terms of treatments, and management.
     
  22. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    100% agree. We should of stayed in the trees.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, apparently about 3% of scientists don't see it that way.

    Except for the fact that many people who exercise, aren't obese and don't sit in a slump position still have those same problems. How do those 3% explain that?
     

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