A world with a loving God.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    In what? Belief isn't really required for most things if we are defining it as the absence of evidence. When there is evidence, belief isn't really needed. When we say, "I believe that John Doe is a good person" what we are really saying is all evidence points to John Doe being a good person, I can't know everything about him but I believe him to be a good person.

    But then again, I'm not 2,000 years old.
     
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  3. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    The absence of genetic diseases, asteroid strikes, baby cancer, and human specific parasites. Also, mean people would tend to get justice, and people that pray would get better luck.
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe if you have an accidental death you only stayed dead for three days.

    Alex
     
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  7. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    Are there people who ''cannot'' believe in a god? What's stopping them believing if they find sufficient evidence?
    Is that like saying, there is a god but it is unknowable? What do you mean by ''unknowable'' here ?
     
  8. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Correct. The people who can't believe will only accept physical evidence for a non physical question.

    Not a big shower of his feelings maybe? Do you know your mother?
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    That's not true. It's not a non-physical question.

    There is a passage in the Bible where they show that God is real and other gods aren't. They sacrifice a bull, prepare it and place it on a pit. They flood the pit with water. They do this for each god.

    Nothing happens for all the other gods but "the" God causes his bull to be cooked instantly. Of course they then kill all the followers of the other gods.

    Set up the same experiment today and you might have quite a few more believers.
     
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  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It's a case of you can't see the bull for the bull.

    I doubt the cherry you have presented will be picked...and of course that's the game..kill your neighbour for working on the Sabath...mmm no...accept the licence to own slaves...mmmmm no..Die and live forever...yes I will have that one...these folk should give up and just agree they have absolutely nothing to support their claim that they have a real god as opposed to the thousands of other gods they all agree are simply human invention.
    Alex
     
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    6,465
    Or maybe you just don't have the God gene?

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  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,185
    The fact that there is no sufficient evidence at all makes that proposition somewhat difficult to test.
    Perhaps the probability that out of the thousands of gods humans have invented that just one of those inventions although unevidenced reflects reality. It's a real long shot and one could wonder with so many clearly fake could this latest one actually be different..Personally I doubt it as the lack of evidence is just the same as the lack of evidence for the thousands on the scrape heap. I am confident that a real god would not leave his existence a complete mystery...to do so just would not make sense.

    God exists in the imagination so I doubt if there can be any proof available that construct actually exists or is responsible for anything at all really.

    But now here is your big chance to produce your evidence and show how your imagination trump's all the thousands of Gods we find on the scrape heap.
    Please take your time I am going now.
    Alex
     
  13. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    505
    What non physical thing or things make you believe in a god?
    And, what is it about those things that make you believe they haven't come via a natural evolution of life. That includes feelings, emotions and showing a ''strength'' at a time when you are down. That last one may be the realisation at a critical time that there's a chance. Some put that down to a god.

    Mother Nature.
     
  14. foghorn Registered Senior Member

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    505
    Alex, you should know by now what they are going to say to that... Faith.
    I would think my ''evidence'' to believe would have to be the same that would make you believe . Don't hold your breath.

    Of course their god is outside Nature, so you won't find the answer in what me and you call Nature.

    I have one question for the believer, post#50 ''And, what is it about those things that make you believe they haven't come via a natural evolution of life. That includes feelings, emotions and showing a ''strength'' at a time when you are down. That last one may be the realisation at a critical time that there's a chance. Some put that down to a god''?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    There is no other kind of evidence. So if you don't accept evidence, then you admit you aren't being rational. One can dismiss irrational arguments.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    But, that's where faith comes in. These ''arguments'' are so repetitive, literally the same back and forth rebuttals all day long, month after month - different threads. Faith is subjective, and I think much of our life experiences live in the cross section of objectivity and subjectivity. Nearly everyone seems to hold true to themselves, subjective beliefs...even if they're non-spiritual. Politics, different philosophies, etc. Opinions are often times, based on subjective truths, aren’t they? Just my two cents, anyways.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  17. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    While it's true that people don't look for the evidence of trivial premises, for instance, that sugar causes tooth decay, they mostly aren't consequential. One hopes that important things, such as the disposition of a hypothetical afterlife, would be checked out more thoroughly. Religious faith isn't just subjective, it's believing in things with no reason, important things.
     
  18. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    While that’s true, millions believe in God, or an afterlife or hold spiritual beliefs. And they’re intelligent and kind. They are not irrational - they just believe and place their hope in something that brings them joy and peace. Of course, some people do terrible things in light of their spiritual beliefs, but a great many don’t.

    I just don’t think it lends to a helpful conversation to generalize people’s beliefs as irrational, but that’s just me.
     
  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with much of what you are saying. I think, in general, it would be much better if religion was just seen (by everyone) as a cultural tradition. Some people are more traditional that others and that causes few (er) problems.

    Some have to go to a turkey dinner on Thanksgiving and some treat it like just another day and very few care about which way you go.

    No one would argue for very long about which is the right way to spend Thanksgiving Day. You do what you like. Religion has gotten amped up way past any useful level IMO.
     
  20. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I find faith, spirituality, religion, to be a personal thing. But, if someone is following the Bible for example, Jesus asked his followers to make disciples of all nations. That is often the ''calling'' that many Christians feel is on their hearts to share their faith. I share my faith, but it's usually within a discussion. Street evangelizing, and trying to intervene in government matters with one's religious beliefs, etc is where it all goes off the rails. Not an advocate of those 'methods.'

    But, the US offers everyone freedom of religion, freedom of speech, so long as you're not harming your neighbor, I'm respectful of people's right to choose. I wouldn't want to live in a country that forbid religious expression, to be honest.
     
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  21. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, that where one's subjective belief starts to effect others. My crazy idea is harmless (unless I harm myself) until I start to use it to affect others.
     
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  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I think you are most correct.
    Generalisation is certainly a dangerous tool.
    I do think one can point out specifics in the religion and call them irrational.
    I fall into the trap of critising the person for being irrational ..I guess observing the religion as seperate and confining discussion to irrational verses perhaps.
    Alex
     
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  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    From reading through your posts lately, you are a very kind man, X. You seem to have a very good heart.

    If no one told you that this week, shame on them!
     

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