Abortion

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Write4U, May 19, 2019.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What I consider silly is our total ignorance of the "exponential function".

    People who talk about world population will stabilize at 10 billion yet encourage an increase in population growth, have no clue what awaits in just a few more decades.

    If a woman wants to abort an unwanted pregnancy leave her alone and let the doctor guide her decision making. SCOTUS (Roe v Wade) has set a reasonable limit on "viability", of the fetus.

    Subjective emotions are not going to make objective natural laws disappear.

    In fact Bartlett acknowledges that population control will pose the greatest dilemma mankind will ever face. This will take extremely hard decisions, none of them pleasant.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I used to suggest to my sons that they call their mother on their birthdays and thank her for not having the abortion.
     
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  5. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Unless it's not about women's rights at all, but about getting sex under religious (patriarchal) control.
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    That's probably big part of the motivation but, under control?

    Ain't gonna happen

    Not while kids have raging hormones in their bodies

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  8. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    thats exactly what it is
    trying to stick their dirty filthy blood cult noses into private bedrooms

    they wish to own sex and own women
    it is a process of slavery of others.
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Uh - just because you know people who are a tad confused on the subject doesn't mean everyone is in total ignorance of math.
    I don't know anyone who says that. Do you?
    Hmm. Not sure I agree there. So if you are saying that a woman wants an abortion, and her doctor says "I don't think that's a good idea" - she should be prohibited from getting one? Personally I think it should be up to her, even if that means changing doctors.
    Well, except they do. We really do have conflicting (and quite subjective) emotions, and we often use these to override natural laws.
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    No such animal as natural laws

    I am sure you do not mean physics as they cannot be overridden

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  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    OK. I was using W4U's definition of natural law as "something that doesn't prohibit abortion" - which from his description are the "laws" that animals live by.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oops, I was off by 1 billion. Make that 11 billion.
    The UN;
    https://www.un.org/press/en/1998/19980202.POP656.html


    IMO, the current estimate of 11 bilion is a very optimistic number. If you read the rest of the article, you'll see I was not to far off in my estimate, altough mine also was on the opimistic side.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Got it

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I did not say the doctor makes the decision, I said guide her in her decision making such as walking her through the procedures, the possible adverse effects and risks involved, you know the stuff doctors do when you come to them for medical advise.

    Stuff that Politicians are not qualified to make, including making laws that take away the right of a woman to control her own body and any parasitic organism growing inside her. Especially if those laws are based on religious foundations, which is unconstitutional to begin with.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you insist that I don't know what I am talking about? Animals know about and live by "natural laws"?
    Where did I say that?
    I did say that humans do know about natural laws and do not live by them, which will probably be the cause for our extinction. And if that sounds improbable ask the millions of species great and small who have already disappeared due to our wanton disregard for natural laws.

    We are already in the Sixth Great Extinction event.
    If this pattern goes unchecked, the future oceans would lack many of the largest species in today’s oceans. Many large species play critical roles in ecosystems and so their extinctions could lead to ecological cascades that would influence the structure and function of future ecosystems beyond the simple fact of losing those species."
    — Jonathan Payne, associate professor and chair of geological sciences at Stanford University

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Can someone please list these

    Natural laws

    Thanks

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  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    IMO natural laws, including evolution and natural selection are based on a mathematical orderings of physical values and functions.

    The Exponential function is a natural mathematical function. The law of Thermo-dynamics is a natural law. E = Mc^2 is a natural constant.

    Here is a list of all known natural laws (Constants)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_constants
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    So physics

    Not natural laws as in natural ways guidance on how to live which

    Ummm

    This is a large number of of large coffees puzzle

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Seems that this moral attachment is the modern interpretation as it applies to human social behaviors and respect for rights.
    But this type of honor system has existed in a natural environment long before humans appeared and especially in different mammalian species. They don't know this but the thought or desire to infringe on another's rights, against which the other has a right to defend themselves, just does not occur.

    Herbivore species are typical of peaceful cooexistence in very large numbers. Their lifestyle is non-intrusive but perhaps territorial. OTOH, the predatory species often engage in existential battles for power and domination.
    Bees and flowering plants have had a symbiotic relationship for billions of years.
    Termites practiced subterranean horticulture for billions of years
    Bacteria are the earliest life forms on earth and are the fundamental Eukariotic proto model of our current life forms. The are chemically reactive organisms. Wisdom comes in small increments.
    Ummm

    This is a large number of of large coffees puzzle

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    [/QUOTE] Well sure, it is very complicated but it is a natural result of billions of years of mutative evolution and natural selection, which employs a mathematical algorhythm for quantum mechanics to produce what we can observe today, obviously. Everything that answers to the description "orderly" is mathematical in essence. All physical objects are orderly and thus mathematical in essence.

    But there is the terrible moral dilemma that faces mankind. How do we control the birth rate of humans and the extraordinary amount of natural resources they require. It will become unsustainable and the earth's eco-system is being affected by humans in an exponential way resulting in an exponential degradation of life-sustaining properties of the atmosphere.

    There will come a point where the population must stabilize over time and a zero growth equilibtium just gives way to 100% replacement without growth. But that population may be relatively small, compared to what we have now.....

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    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    Something something about lack of consent goes here...

    Your response seems to be arguing for argument's sake.

    And this is relevant because of...?

    And this is relevant because of...?

    The reason I ask is because the Bible does not actually mention abortion.

    Secondly, Islamic countries seem to have more abortion rights for women, then some parts of the US...

    Thirdly, the "pro-life" movement basically came to life, ironically enough, once the women's rights movement really kicked in in the 60's, culminating in Southern pearl clutching with Roe v Wade..

    So what does the OT actually have to do with it?
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It does seem to suggest plenty of rape as a right of the matriarch.
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Morals

    My way of thinking of how you should live your life

    As flexible as a blade of grass with a million times more variety

    Because morals are

    As flexible as a blade of grass with a million times more variety

    Not had enough coffee to tackle the rest

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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    correction to post #38. Should read Patriarch instead of Matriarch.
     

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