, never suggested timespace to be rotating Light cone from the viewpoint of where? post a diagram to show the geometry, we are all waiting. we could be arguing endlessly about that. light cones have a starting point and it makes a lot of difference, . , particularly in the vicinity of a black hole. so, point it out. A picture will be worth a thousand words. All our looks are into the past. bsw. The logical fallacy question was: what is the zero thickness membrane made of. answer: a zero plane has no place to place anything to be made of.It si not just a logical fallacy, because there is no real answer, it is also among the "silly" assertions made. even with the variable of a low surface gravity, you would need spacers props to get that 8 ft measurement of a rope already in the future, waiting for the membrane to catch up with it. What countries? yours? The US has "fair usage laws" read them. Google XYZ images has these pictures ( without attribution) in the purposely public domain. The authors would have them removed if they objected. You are a public prosecutor only in your imagination. (silly) In the simulation, in my model, allow it to be defined by me as we go along, The cable would be of the same stuff and dimension as the membrane. The mass and energy content of the (membrane +- -+ the cable) would be constant. and when it is lifted off the surface radially, it goes into the future portion of timespace. not the past. The cable would be already in the future, waiting for us to catch up***. This is not equivalent to empty space time, this is existing close to the mass of a massive entity, the universe. no stringy entity exists near a gravity well in mainstream science without sustainsion , by orbital velocity for example . We were not talking about an outside POV of the universe, but of a model. or two. That could be considered a "silly" , pointless objection, semantics. quiveling about definitions, sentence structure. It is understood by all viewers. when one talks about the model, or the universe being viewed, discussed. you are not helping your credibility, which is sad, because in general your comments are helpful, even if they sometimes seem to feign ignorance. ***re: again NE said: take this cable scenario we've been talking about. Let's say that there are no wedges, and thus the cable will be pulled into the past. Calculate the energy content of the universe before and after the cable gets pulled into the past. Obviously, it reduces (by the energy of the cable). Your model violates conversation of energy: thank you NE for posting that scenario, helping thus to define Expanding Silly Membrane Model. In the solution I obviously assumed that the cable would not be expanding after deployment as the membrane does, otherwise the membrane would never catch up in time[space] with the cable position. an 8 foot gap forever!. Neat feature though, like a kelp cutter on some of our California Craft.