ALMA sees old galaxies before they merged. two ways to look back into the past?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by nebel, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. river

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    WH = white hole , correct ?
     
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  3. nebel

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    such a panorama would show the BH, Big Bang in one corner and the present expanded spacetime in the other, would it not?
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Mathematics is not a force, it is a property of the spacetime fabric. Things happen via logical mathematical guiding equations which physical things and actions must obey, naturally, inevitably.

    How physical things respond to the mathematics of the universe is implied by their inherent values even before they are explicated from the most subtle to gross expression in realty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
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  7. river

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    How does the mathematics exist before the physical ?
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually, the BH and the WH are at the center singularity of the toroid See the colour illustration on page 1039 where everything falls into the BH phenomenon until it is converted into pure energy, reaches a threshold, and gets spewed out the other side as a WH phenomenon, which is basically a repeat of an ancient original BB but each repeat evolving slightly different from previous versions in an endless recycling of matter and energy.

    Such a model might also yield a multiverse with many toroidal universes locked in their own endless cycle of creating matter from energy and back to energy from matter.

    I have absolutely no numbers or science on which I base this speculative proposal. Don't ask me to prove it...

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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    We've covered that before, but my take is that mathematics is inherent in 3D spacetime geometry.

    Example: Circles are all similar, and "the circumference divided by the diameter" produces the same value regardless of their radius. This value is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter and is called π (Pi).

    IOW, all circles have a mathematical circumferential value in common, Pi. This suggests that Pi has an independent existence as a necessary and sufficient part of a circular pattern, regardless of the physical materials involved.
     
  10. river

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    Highlighted

    And Pi calculation goes on for infinity . 3.14 is not a perfect mathematical thing .
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No matter, Pi (an abstract mathematical entity) exists in every circle, regardless of size or physics.

    All Platonic solids have similar unalienable abstract mathematical properties regardless of size.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  12. river

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    All based on the physical .
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Chaos theory.
     
  14. river

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    Go on

    First though define chaos theory to you . So we don't misunderstand each other .
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The probabilistic spontaneous formation of regular patterns by quanta with specific values, within the initial chaotic condition,
     
  16. river

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    Based on ?
     
  17. nebel

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    of course that is a reasonable concept, Roger Penrose, advanced something like this decades ago, what I am pointing out is:
    if we consider our horizon, from which we can only detect 1/4 of the total universe, with the Background Radiation at the outer time limit, 13 billion years away ---, with the ones
    in the recirculating torus, none of the 4 "umbrellas" (The coloured curved surface with the handle reaching to the center or beginning post #1057) required to see all the universe, would give you identical 2D panoramas.
    If you are unlucky, you could face imminent spaghettification, if you are not in the one that corresponds to our vision, near the equator.
    The sphere expanding into time model has only local, not certain, fatal, universal hazards. It is the simplest too. a

    S
    phere Expanding Into Time: S.e.i.t. almost like Zeit as in Zeitgeist. thank you for the prompting.
    sorry for the line, unintended glitch.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Probability, a mathematical function.
     
  19. nebel

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    to rephrase my reply:
    only the radius of 13 billion years centered on the donut's equator would give the even panorama we have in all 4 viewing areas in our S.E.I.T. model***.
    (There is only place for one right on the equator btw) The other 3 that are required, to cover the universe as a toroid, would give really terrifying views, if you value stability.
    *** Sphere expanding into time
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2021
  20. nebel

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    Quoted from New Scientist magazine, bold added:
    "Earlier this year, astronomers led by Tessa Vernstrom at the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation in Perth, Australia, confirmed the detection of magnetic field lines stretching some 50 million light years between galaxy clusters."

    Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-would-revolutionise-cosmology/#ixzz79I2fWOrc

    This would be a feature that reaches almost double beyond our horizon , if we consider that we can see only ~ 13 billion years in all directions along the expanding sphere SEIT. which itself has only a circumference of ~90 billion years in timespace.
    ,
     
  21. nebel

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    On the theme of the OP seeing the same event twice, again from the others side of the universe, here a partial event: Image coming a convoluted way along membrane #3 through deep time warps.

    University of Copenhagen - Faculty of Science. "Astronomers spot the same supernova three times -- and predict a fourth sighting in 16 years." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 13 September 2021. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210913135608.htm>.
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Mirror images are part of the Platonic dodecahedron universe, no?

    Is the universe a dodecahedron?
    08 Oct 2003 Isabelle Dumé

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    Figure 2
    https://physicsworld.com/a/is-the-universe-a-dodecahedron/#
     
  23. nebel

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    The present model of the universe moving into time as an expanding sphere, or "Sphere Model Expanding Into Time,"
    SMEIT, with membrane #3 being subject to only to relativistic deformations, has no mechanism that would account for the existence of the edges and planar areas of a 12 sided geometric abstract. Light, any object moving in area #3 is not observed to suddenly change directions as would be required.

    There would be 3 of these of these kinky pentagon areas within the horizon we see of the universe, see post # 1057 above.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021

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