That doesn't explain the sharp and consistent and influential conflicts between members of the same class - the most striking pattern of the recent Presidential vote, as well as US history in general. And you continue to skew your thinking be talking about "the central issue" - is there only one? Much of the racist white American electorate thinks they aren't racist, of course. Why do you agree? Racism is not a long past issue of 150 years ago. Not "working class". White working class. His white working class base was built on his racist attacks on Obama during the campaign season we just had - just a few months ago. That's a big part of how he got the Republican nomination, remember? He wasn't running just against Clinton then, specifically, but against the Obama administration overall. You underestimate the racial opposition to Romney - remember his "47%" ? - and the racial identity politics favoring Obama. You also overlook the gains Trump made among specifically the most racially bigoted whites, while actually losing a bit among the less bigoted whites. Even more significantly, you overlook Clinton's vulnerability on welfare "reform" and other racially biased economic issues. You also overlook the misuse of percentages in your thinking. As does WaPo, in their new incarnation as wingnut apologist rag. Try not speaking of them - maybe they'll go away. That always worked with the monsters under your bed, right?
Well it explains this presidential vote, NOW. You know there was not Twitter in the past, ergo Twitter does not explain anything in the present. Central means the center issue as in the biggest issue, sure there are lots of other issues. If you had cancer and you had acne, you have two issues there, which one is bigger? Because I want to win enough of their votes (or at the very least not get them to come out and vote) to win the elections for the democrat? You said "slavery" before, not racism. Racism is an issue, it is not the biggest issue facing this nation presently but it is a real present issue. Did you watch any of the insane "aristocrat" circus acts they called the republican debates? He got the republican nomination by bending over his competition and raping them, live on TV. He won on pure anti-establishmentism, watch him destroy Jeb Bush on the Iraq War, watch as republicans clap. Watch him demand enslaving the blacks again, watch as republicans clap, oh wait that didn't happen. Yes more epicycles, the math works with more epicycles! Racial opposition to Romney: Are you telling me his "47%" line was somehow more damaging then all the things Trump has said? Yes he made gains amongst bigots, yeah sure, so what? That is not the reason he won. Clinton's vulnerabilities were FAR BIGGER than welfare reform, you honestly think Clinton's position on welfare reform is what sunk her? Google "Hillary Welfare Reform", now Google "Hillary emails", do I need to say more? So when ever someone or something disagrees with you it is "wingnut" republican propaganda? Oh so close to self awareness there, so close, see monsters under the bed are not real. Fascist in the USA are powerless and weak, but with people like you claiming everyone is a fascist, that fantasy will become reality.
It most obviously does not. The working class vote in this election was sharply and deeply and strikingly divided on specifically racial lines. That's how Trump won. So you mentally cripple yourself, and live in delusion? You actually somehow persuade yourself that the racism right in front of you doesn't exist, in hopes that will make you more persuasive when talking to racial bigots? That didn't work this time. My bet is it won't work next time either. Depends on whether they are pushing invalid arguments from misrepresented data in alignment with wingnut Republican propaganda, or not. There is no "the center issue". The concept is meaningless. People like me do not, and never did, label anything and everyone "fascist". We use words on purpose, to express thoughts and describe aspects of world we find worth discussing. Meanwhile, the fascist movement in the US recently captured the Presidency and effective control of the majority in both houses of Congress. Did you miss that? It happened a couple of weeks ago. Do you think that is significant, worth paying attention to?
The working class has always been divided by racial lines, but it was LESS so in this election then the previous ones, Romney managed to divided by racial lines MORE SO than trump, how could that be if Trump is neo-nazi savior? Well it worked the previous two times, with a black guy no less, all you need apparently is some charisma, promising EVERYONE improvement in their lives and some good feeling "There is not [insert demographic here] and [insert opposing demographic here] Ameria, there is the United State of America" ... god I'm going to miss him. Oh so then why not prove the argument is invalid then and how the data is misrepresented then, instead of ad hominiem-ing and that kind of thinking is why we lost. Aside for the fact you did above in multiple posts and below in the next sentence, oh that right it is purposeful and specific, ok you believe most of the trump voters are racists and fascist, right? and that is why we lost, right? And I disagree and point out that that kind of mindset and the expressions that come from it by you and your ilk helped democrats and liberals LOSE. You and your ilks demonizing of the other sided helped rally them. Yes, and who fault is that?, oh right, yours. Look your going to believe them all fascist, and I'm going to blame you for Trump, clearly nothing is going to change that at this point, so why argue about it anymore? Lets get back to talking about the rise of the alt-right as per this thread topic:
That isn't significant. No, ignoring race has never worked. Especially with Obama, the entire campaign was built around minimizing his threat to presumably racist white voters. Nobody took a step without considering the racism of the core Republican voter, the Trump crowd. Race was a central factor in every single discussion and analysis of Obama's campaign, even the charge of "white guilt" voting was a daily feature of the mainstream media. As already pointed out to you, all the issues you have proposed as "the central issue" are bound to current racial bigotry and past racial history in the US. So if there were one single central issue, as you claim, it would have to include race in some way. But I say the concept is meaningless - race strongly influences every political issue in the US, of course, and it is central to US politics for that reason, but that does not make race "the central issue" in my view. Yes, I think most Trump voters are racist. At least 80% of them, if the polls detailing their beliefs about Obama mean anything at all (the credence to Birther claims, secret Muslim claims, hates white people, wife hates white people, wants to expand welfare because black people benefit, etc etc etc etc etc - on and on and on, for eight years and this entire Trump campaign without letup). That's more of an observation than a belief. It's a fact of American political reality. No, I don't believe most Trump voters are fascist. I of course observe that Trump and political movement he took over, the one that has captured the Republican Party, is fascist - what else would you call it? - but his voters (like most backers of cuadillo types) look more like chumps than true believers. You're blaming the Left, me, and people like me, for the rise of the Alt Right. You are even blaming the Left, me, and people like me for the Clinton campaign abandoning the economic focus for a "Trump says bad words" focus, calling people "deplorables", and the rest of their lame-ass meandering in touchy feely land. That's crazy - you are swallowing whole the silliest of wingnut propaganda (including the idea that the Clinton campaign was being run by the Left). I think if you and the rest of the DNC base don't get a clue, and in a hurry, you are going get together and blame the message as well as the messenger in some official way - purge the Democratic Party of the message as well as the messenger of the Left, me, and people like me. And when you do, you will have purged the Dems of all that stuff you claimed you wanted - focus on the economics, recognition of the inadequacy of an economic approach that seems to regard the stock market and the official unemployment rate as the main indicators of economic health, acknowledgement of the realities of white people's lives, separation from Wall Street and the big insurance corporations, and laying off of the petty and nanny State stuff that impinges on individual white people's lives - that kind of stuff. And when that happens, the voting public is once again - as with Reagan, as with W - going to be faced with an elite that seems unaware of basic white American life, vs a guy like Trump.
I did not even begin reading until here, sorry. Seriously there is no progress on this argument and you have taken over this thread for it. Oh that is crazy, well guess what? the world is now crazy! Thanks alot for that and President Trump. Everyone across the political spectrum from Sam Harris to random millennial shit stains are blaming the regressive left. Look if the 'salt of the earth' blames you, if the voters blame you, then you are going to have to go for us to win next time, sorry, world is not fair. And that message is what again? Racism is everything? what? If the message is economic improvement for the labor class and deal with political corruption, I'm all for it, great, if we both agree on that being the primary message of the democratic party then this argument can end right here and now.
You and your sources are not even reliable news, let alone the world. So which are you - confused Sam Harris acolyte or millenial shit stain? Which branch of the "regressive left" was it that primaried Alan Grayson in Florida, for example, or refused to set up a system to handle the voting machine problems in the swing States, or hired Wasserman-Schultz, or rigged the primaries for Clinton? How was it that a rightwing hate radio canard and slander, that authoritarian government itself was "left", that things like gun confiscation or enforced micromanagement of college campus social life were "left", was picked up by the mainstream Democratic Party as their frame of discussion? Ok, unfair: Why is that, do you suppose? My guess is that they, and you, have no idea who the Left is or what it's been doing. In your case you have me, and I'm only slightly Left, screaming "fascist" and "racist" at my neighbors, and have lumped me in the same box with Clinton herself calling people "deplorables". You seem to have been getting your info about the "Left" from the same wingnut propaganda videos the Trump voters have. I recommend a reality check. Anyone who is blaming Clinton's failure to speak to the economic issues and deal with the economic realities of working class white folks, and instead run ads accusing Trump of saying bad words and behaving badly and so forth, on "the Left", has no idea what the Left in general - or even such marginal Lefties as me and people like me - has been doing and saying. How do I know? Because they base their blame on stuff I and people like me did not do, and recommend that we do instead exactly what we have been doing. 1) They don't blame me, or anyone like me. 2) The voters who went for Trump assigned blame according to their sources, which were exclusively Republican propaganda feeds. Why do you sucker for Republican propaganda bs? Aren't you supposed to know better? How about if, instead of allowing yourself to be led around by the corporate rightwing propaganda feeds, you pay some attention to what people actually do - in this case the working class whites voted against not the Left, me, or anybody like me, but the Clinton approach. They also did that in several elections before, going back to 1980 3) Banishing the Left, also me and people like me, is exactly what Clinton (again) did this time - excluded people like me from her campaign strategy team (brought people like Wasserman-Schutz on board instead), took no advice from the Left, refused to speak from any perspective of mine and those like me or recommended by those like me. We had no voice whatsoever in Clinton's campaign. Do you think Clinton's campaign was well run, had the right ideas, was correct to get rid of people like me, etc? She did win a majority of the vote. I think it was a bad approach, even if it did win her a majority of the vote. Look: I and the people like me have been marginalized and excluded from most Democratic Party politics for decades now. And we have been blamed by people like you for every single failure of that Party that entire time. Now we are blamed for the rise of the Alt Right and Trump, as if they were new things and needed new explanation - as if we (I and people like me) had not been describing this stuff and warning you guys about it for decades now? You need to talk to the Left, or me and people like me, and listen to what we are trying to tell you, instead of just calling us names and blaming us for everything that goes wrong. You aren't that stupid, or illiterate. The Alt Right is a continuation of the thug wing of the industrial era political faction that has been called "fascist" since Mussolini coined the term. In the US, it is and always has been racist - and that is central to its identity, a core feature without which it would be a much different faction. Obviously it has other core features - such as a corporate capitalist economic agenda, an emphasis on military over other governmental functions, and the like - but the racism is key to its electoral strategies and tactics.
Reliable news? I don't think such a thing exist politically, maybe CSPAN? Anyways I merely look at multiple sources each with their own bias, and when just about every side from conservatives to libertarians to leftists are blaming the regressive left, it becomes a fault that is self prophesying: enough voted for trump simply because they hate you, you got to go. Nice. Totally separate problems, sure all those factors contributed to our loss, and so did the regressive left. Well aside for your hyperbole, well yes gun control and university campuses swing left, I know this as a democrat committee member and as a university employee that goes to university meetings. Pretty sure I'm the one in reality here, sorry. Well ok and what have you been doing? 1. Dam man take a chill pill, learn to take a little criticism. 2. but they don't get all their news from Republican propaganda feed and they come from a wide range of political beliefs and there a millions of them and they vote, and we need their vote. And I have stated repeatedly that the biggest cause of our failure was running Clinton, none the less blame must go around to every factor that cost us votes, like the regressive left, people like you that think racism is behind everything, fascism and republicans are one, anyone and anything that disagrees is right wing propaganda, etc. Banishing the left? How is making economic improvement of the labor class and dealing with political corruption via clean trustworthy candidates the parties top priorities: banishing the left? Hey look at that we agree! Ok ok and what are you trying to tell us? No the alt-right of today is something new, spawned by people that wanted to be offensive for offensive sake, do to the existence of a regressive left or ctrl left that scream how "offended" they are and demands no one offend them. Years of trolling the regressive left has resulted in the trolls believing their own offensiveness "hey maybe it really is the jews behind everything, maybe blacks are really genetically inferior, maybe pepe is the key to everything?" in short scream racist and facist at someone long enough and they internalize it, become it. Pretty sure its key, today, is frog memes.
Already gone, long ago. The Left, me, and people like me, had almost no role in Clinton's campaign, or influence on it. She's never allowed us into her wheelhouse her entire career, and as she gained power she worked to increasingly exclude the Left from the Democratic Party itself. So like Clinton you have enjoyed the benefits of having got rid of not only the Left, but also me, and people like me, for an entire campaign. And you won a bare majority of the popular vote, against the likes of Donald Trump - congratulations. I state a couple of obvious facts, ask the obvious question, and I need to chill? But the more important point: no, they (and apparently you) don't get their news and information from a wide range of political beliefs. They attend to almost nothing except rightwing corporate framed news sources - NBC, CNN, Fox, and the like. Their idea of "both sides" is somebody who analyzes everything as "both sides" - somebody hurriedly shoveling the "both sides" lime on the latest Republican charnel pit is as far as they get from Limbaugh and Breitbart. It isn't. As the DNC will discover, once again, if it does, once again, follow Clinton's lead and banish the Left along with people like me. Which is what you are recommending, remember? Do you really sign on with that hoary old agitprop meme? Christ, that one goes back to Goldwater. Let's put it bluntly: that "regressive Left" you are talking about, the one doing all that screaming, not only does not include anyone like me today, but never itself actually existed "all those years". It's fictional. There was no such thing then, essentially there isn't one now. It was lies and slanders and bs excuses for being an ignorant asshole then, it's lies and slanders and bs excuses for being an ignorant asshole now. Meanwhile, you aren't even talking about an actual "Left" in the first place; you are talking at best about hardcore Clinton supporters or coastal white collar professionals, at worst about a video propaganda meme cobbled together out of nutcase footage by Republican professional liars. And they obviously have your number. The people you are describing (as finally! just now! brand new! never before seen!) have been racist, and voting for fascists, since before WWII. They have been believing that Jews are behind everything since before the Depression, that blacks are genetically inferior since genetics were discovered in the 1950s, and that Pepe is their symbol since the propagandists that have them on puppet strings drew the little guy - to replace their last icon, which was not smelling so good these days. And they have been justifying their behavior as a reaction to being dissed by the "pinkos", the "liberal elites", the "nattering nabobs of negativism" (google is your friend), the pointy headed professors in the fancy eastern colleges, the irresponsible and idle and overeducated and the like, that whole long, long, time. These are the people who voted for George Wallace https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace , or maybe Nixon (he reached out), and they were talking then as they are talking now. They've got a chip on their shoulder, and the Republican marketing experts know exactly how to knock it off - reality not involved. That's them. There's not a damn thing new about them, or about their Goldwater Wallace Nixon Agnew Reagan W PalinTrump political heroes, or about their emblematic KKK Conservative Independent Patriot Tea Party Alt Right intellectual champions. What's your excuse?
Via VoxDay What the Alt Right is: In the interest of developing a core Alt Right philosophy upon which others can build. The Alt Right is of the political right in both the American and the European sense of the term. Socialists are not Alt Right. Progressives are not Alt Right. Liberals are not Alt Right. Communists, Marxists, Marxians, cultural Marxists, and neocons are not Alt Right. The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA that is nominally encapsulated by Russel Kirk's 10 Conservative Principles, but in reality has devolved towards progressivism. It is also an alternative to libertarianism. The Alt Right is not a defensive attitude and rejects the concept of noble and principled defeat. It is a forward-thinking philosophy of offense, in every sense of that term. The Alt Right believes in victory through persistence and remaining in harmony with science, reality, cultural tradition, and the lessons of history. The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy. The Alt Right is openly and avowedly nationalist. It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration. The Alt Right is anti-globalist. It opposes all groups who work for globalist ideals or globalist objectives. The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality for the same reason it rejects the ideas of unicorns and leprechauns, noting that human equality does not exist in any observable scientific, legal, material, intellectual, sexual, or spiritual form. The Alt Right is scientodific. It presumptively accepts the current conclusions of the scientific method (scientody), while understanding a) these conclusions are liable to future revision, b) that scientistry is susceptible to corruption, and c) that the so-called scientific consensus is not based on scientody, but democracy, and is therefore intrinsically unscientific. The Alt Right believes identity > culture > politics. The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples. The Alt Right is opposed to any non-native ethnic group obtaining excessive influence in any society through nepotism, tribalism, or any other means. The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war. The Alt Right doesn't care what you think of it. The Alt Right rejects international free trade and the free movement of peoples that free trade requires. The benefits of intranational free trade is not evidence for the benefits of international free trade. The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children. The Alt Right does not believe in the general supremacy of any race, nation, people, or sub-species. Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species has its own unique strengths and weaknesses, and possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers. The Alt Right is a philosophy that values peace among the various nations of the world and opposes wars to impose the values of one nation upon another as well as efforts to exterminate individual nations through war, genocide, immigration, or genetic assimilation. TL;DR: The Alt Right is a Western ideology that believes in science, history, reality, and the right of a genetic nation to exist and govern itself in its own interests. The patron saint of conservatives, Russell Kirk, wrote: "The great line of demarcation in modern politics, Eric Voegelin used to point out, is not a division between liberals on one side and totalitarians on the other. No, on one side of that line are all those men and women who fancy that the temporal order is the only order, and that material needs are their only needs, and that they may do as they like with the human patrimony. On the other side of that line are all those people who recognize an enduring moral order in the universe, a constant human nature, and high duties toward the order spiritual and the order temporal." This is no longer true, assuming it ever was. The great line of demarcation in modern politics is now a division between men and women who believe that they are ultimately defined by their momentary opinions and those who believe they are ultimately defined by their genetic heritage. The Alt Right understands that the former will always lose to the latter in the end, because the former is subject to change.
The whole thing seems rather silly to me. The Alt-Right, is in reality, Internet drivel. LOL That said, the same is not true of other Nations. Importantly, all of the northern Asian States. These are in fact: Nation States. Korea - that's a Nation. China - again, a Nation. Japan - a Nation. Unlike so-called White's, Asians don't feel guilt over some perceived historical grievances. They have no interest in multiculturalism (thank the Gods) and see little (if any) benefit in importing tax-chattel to the degree that it disrupts their monocultures / Nations. I find it nice Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Take Hong Kong for example (I was there just last week), overwhelmingly Ethnic Chinese. Very very few non-Chinese, and most of the non-Chinese, would be other Asians. Maybe 0.1% 'White'? And this is an ex-English colony! LOL I'd say the same is true of all Chinese cities I've worked in. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! In Japan - you can still see the good ole' "White Pig Go Home" protest in Shibuya from time to time Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Shibuya's the largest trainstain in the entire world, in the heart of a mega-city: Tokyo. Almost no crime. Which is nice (though you can see Americans selling drugs from time to time, which I find disgusting, but whatever - obviously works for the Japanese, I suppose. Not my business Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It's interesting to see a Nation of people actually value their culture, history and accomplishments - enough to protect it. I also like the Asian way of dealing with "White Guilt". They nod, agree, and then ostracize Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Whereas we just pay a lot of money and then beg and beg and wallow in sorow for forgiveness.... PLEEEASE and then pay some more money. Rinse Repeat LOL I do sort of agree on one point in the list: Western civilization WAS the pinnacle of human achievement. Perhaps its three foundational pillars were Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy? Maybe. I'd probably cut Christianity from the list and limit European nations to a few in the West, but whatever. That time is over. The sun sets in the West and rises in the East. A good analogy for the times ahead Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
In the first above video, Seth Cooper says that despite what Gandhi said, we [The Alt-Right] have to wage war or it would be over for the European races at around 1:12:55. Also, the discussion of eugenics comes up at around 45:00. In the second above video, starting at around 1:22:55, Seth Cooper says the following: 1). That he has top secret clearance for about 14 years now. 2). That he can’t get way too much into the details about agencies he worked or works for and that those agencies shall remain unnamed. 3). That total transparency will bring down a power structure.
Steve Bannon is in the White House, with more influence on US government executive policy than anybody in world besides the President himself.
LOL What next? Lizard people. The US Government has been invading nations overthrowing governments and murdering women and children since before our founding. I wouldn't worry too much about some magazine editor. That aside, I'm pretty sure MIC / Murder Inc isn't much fussed about who they're murdering, just as long as the tax chattel keep paying. As it is, some tax chattel pay more than others, The Farmers a little less inclined to kill off his prise meat and milk producers. For now. Oh, and as I said, if the Alt-Right, BLM or Alt-Left want their own little Nation State, they can buy it like everyone else. I mean wtf? We're not Israel. Anyway, this one will collapse soon enough. Then they'll see some things are more important than what's left of White culture. Whatever the hell that even is. Like general intelligence. Honesty. Commitment. Work ethic. Etc..
He's not a magazine editor. He was the single most important figure in the alt-right internet presence you dismissed as "drivel", and he's the second most powerful man in the US government as we speak. He's been described as the American Leni Riefenstahl. That "drivel" is running your country.
LOL Look, if things really go belly-up, you can reflect on why it was an idiotic idea to create a Government fiat currency. While contemplating this, recall this monstrosity, IS Progressive Socialism. And, as I said, you needn't worry because the chances are just as likely we'll end up with a far left psychopath as they are far right. Either way, you'll probably be fine. I'd personally worry more about being mugged by a brainwashed idiot who thinks you who them something. Well then, I digress Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Still haven't bought that dictionary, apparently. So far, the far left has no representation in any branch of the government, on any major news media, or among the military command and civilian police; the fascists - the authoritarian faction of the medium and far right - predominate in both Houses of Congress and the Executive Branch, probably in the military, and with the Supreme Court currently in the balance - not with the left, which is not present on the Court, but with less corporate and authoritarian allegiances. So your calculation of odds seems a bit off.
LOL Here's how it's going to go, the Millennials, a significant portion of whom where spanked and shoveled into day supervision centers have developed various anxiety disorders, were educated in a far-left Government School system and taught to believe in the State. Which is what they have done. Now, they're really not that much different from their Boomer parents, except they grew up paying off all the loans their grandparents made to themselves through T-Bond and Municipal Bond sales, thus, they have a much lower standard of living. They also were shoveled into hyper-regulated markets (thanks, again, to their Boomer parents - whom themselves would have never been able to compete at this end of the curve) and are therefor stuck wiping butts and waiting tables (when not making coffees). They'll vote for someone on the Left. They'll probably see that the only option is to vote for a true demagogue, someone who will wield State power to 'redistribute' from their Boomer parents, to them. That's all they really know how to do (thanks GiverMint School). Think of the Nazi dude being punched, only in place of Nazi, put a Boomer. Sometime in the future, perhaps the USA will break into four smaller Nation States (which would be better) or not, Generation Z will grow up and return to a limited Government, by then society will probably have the technological means to deal with most social problems by not initiating violence, but instead ostracizing offenders. Which is much much more effective. I suspect, the idea of personal privacy will long be gone by then. I imagine Religion will make a come back. Probably a mix between Buddhism and Christianity. So, until such a time, enjoy the show.
As always, the adjective "white" is missing for some reason. Their grandparents grew up paying off WWII. Just sayin'. They met the deregulated financial markets of the Reagan revolution, most significantly - their relative poverty largely the consequence of transferring wealth from everyone else to the very rich.
