An Alternative Approach to Gravity

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by RajeshTrivedi, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    In one of the different threads I had proposed an idea about PSMR (Progenitor State Matter & Radiation), the proposed hypothesis around PSMR is extremely simple in which I have suggested that gravity is variable and it is the stretching of PSMR, PSMR stretched beyond certain critical level produces mass and relaxation in stretched PSMR produces photonic radiation.

    This simple concept plausibly explains almost all the known and unknown (unresolved) observations from Strong Interaction to relativistic jets and eliminates Dark Matter and Dark Energy.

    While resolving I could theoretically conclude that it is not possible for a Neutron star to collapse and form a Black Hole. So this eliminated one of the possible routes of formation of a Black hole. Another route of formation of a BH is sudden dynamic collapse of a large mass star, analysis of this results into some kind of weird formation of trapped radiation inside the event horizon.

    So if the Black Hole has to go, then this Even Horizon needs to be broken. I have plausible explanation for this, I am trying to ascertain issues around it.

    But while thinking about this, one quite a funny (or not so funny) thought came to my mind. I expect some positive views here.

    ---The detection of GW has kind of given a real aspect to spacetime. The deflection was in the space, path difference was observed in the aLIGO interpherometer, suggesting it to be akin to space. So in GR if the gravity is curvature of spacetime, then what if there is no spacetime?

    During the formation of black hole, a stage would come when there is a possibility of no space between inner layers of the object, if there is no space, then why the gravity should not vanish?

    (This concept I have used in my PSMR, if there is no PSMR (empty space) between two objects, then gravity vanishes). This kind of situation would come if compression overcomes quark-quark bond (assuming that they are the fundamental particles)
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  3. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    In cosmology, there are few speculations about the origin of the universe as well as the future. As per Big Bang Cosmology the Universe originated from a point singularity and now expanding. Then there is steady state cosmology (by Hoyle etc), now sort of sidelined, which talks of steady state nature of the universe.

    Under proposed PSMR scheme, the universe is spreading like fire (not 'expanding' like in Big Bang Cosmology wherein the gap between galaxies/clusters increasing due to stretch of intervening spacetime). As more and more matter forms from the PSMR, the stretch continues to build up and covers more and more un-stretched PSMR. The total energy (stretch + matter) remains zero.
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Hi Rajesh.
    Thanks for posting your ideas and although I find them interesting I can't understand your PSMR.
    I wish I could but its beyond me.
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  7. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    No, its not beyond anybody, it is extremely simple. What is intuitively beyond us is stretching of spacetime or space, what is beyond us is the concept of Dark Energy which is causing the accelerated stretching of spacetime. Under PSMR proposition Dark Energy is not required, because the universe is spreading not stretching.

    let me throw some light (pun not intended),
    We all are ok with the concept of dark matter, something which interacts gravitationally but not electromagnetically. Fundamentally I have tweaked it a bit, for argument sake you can say that PSMR is The Dark Matter which is capable of stretching. And furthermore stretched PSMR does not interact gravitationally, it is the gravity. The stretch in the PSMR is the cause behind the gravity.

    Moreover, this PSMR stretched beyond certain limit produces lump (matter mass) and any relaxation caused in the stretched PSMR produces radiation.

    This simple concept I have tried to apply to all the observations, and I have found that it is capable of explaining all of them plausibly. In fact it eliminates formation of BH through neutron star mass accretion, but in case if any object due to some real catastrophic event gets beneath its event horizon, then also it has a way to come out. This is the only aspect which is a bit tricky and leads to vanishing of gravity in the innermost part of such object. Why not?
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    I don't like dark matter or dark energy so good luck get rid of it.

    Good luck with the small details.

    By way of encouragement I must tell you that a chap on the astronomy forum I belong to discovered a galaxy.
    No one could think such was possible ...and now there are papers written about it..apparently it is figuring in work on dark matter.

    I worked out gravity, took me years, in the bush time to think but ignorant of any science other than how it related to my astronomy..but it turned out Le Sage had the same ideas in 1745. Push gravity where gravity occurs via a shadowing effect probably know about it.
    Discredited around 100 years ago needs a sort of ether and of course SR got rid of it ...the ether.

    To find out someone beat me to the idea actually made me happy because I did not have to think about it anymore.
    It was long after that that I became informed about GR.
    Some will day folk like us, thinking about possibilities and unqualified for the job are nutters...and we may be but thinking is fun...and some folk will critise but at least you are having a my book that is admirable.

    Your run at cosmoquest was not bad considering how tuff they could not win but you fought well.

    Its like that saying which you may have heard..this better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all...

    You could think of writing a book maybe...I thought of writing a book but I saw one in the shop for $5 so I thought..hang it I will just buy one.

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  9. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    The PSMR was not discussed at cosmoquest.
    There also those guys could not figure out that when an object is just at EH, the inner fractions are out of their respective EHs. You see how NotEinstein is struggling to prove me wrong on this, no success yet, only some vague unrealistic profiles he is suggesting.
  10. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Yes I followed the thread, my comment I should have qualified better as general encouragement.
  11. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    The present efforts are to find out the cause of gravity as emanating from the object. In this hypothesis, gravity is not something intrinsic to the object, it is the stretch in the surrounding PSMR which got created when the mass was forming.

    Stretch is more intuitive then the warping of the spacetime. The GR does not explain how the spacetime got curved, but this proposal clearly explains how the PSMR (or space) got stretched.

    The analogy of curving of fabric of spacetime with the mass is also non intuitive, but the stretching is a simple classical Physics mechanism, which is easy to comprehend and does not require any non intuitive visualization of 4D structure.
  12. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

    Wouldn't that then make gravity a property of space rather than matter?
  13. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    Yes, very true. The gravity is the property of PSMR (the space). Higher the stretch in PSMR higher the gravity, and the stretch in the PSMR is caused at the time of formation of matter.

    Incidentally even in GR, the gravity is not the property of matter, it is the change in the geometry of the spacetime due to mass, in this hypo gravity is due to stretch in the space (PSMR). There is maximum gravity between quark-quark bond which naturally falls to prevalent level even beyond hydrogen atom.
  14. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    1. The concept of "stretching" of spacetime is already there in the Big Bang Cosmology (BBC). What causes this stretch of spacetime? We have no clue.
    2. The concept of dark matter is also introduced in BBC, we know that it interacts gravitationally but not electromagnetically. We will never find this dark matter, because actually this dark matter is proposed stretched PSMR, which by definition is gravity and not some EM interacting matter. So no need to hypothesize about some elusive dark matter.
  15. Goldtop Registered Senior Member

    I'm a little confused, first you say gravity is a property of space, then you say it's due to mass?

    If gravity is a property of space, would that mean space can't be quantized?
  16. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    when a spring is stretched due to hanging of mass, the stretching is due to mass, but it is the property of the spring.
    The question of quantization of space (PSMR) may not arise, as the PSMR is the progenitor state.
  17. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    In some other thread some one wanted evidence for PSMR;
    It is not that observational evidence can be explained by only one theory, multiple hypotheses can explain a given observation. If any hypo or theory fails to explain a given observation, then either the theory fails or it calls for some changes. Almost all the observations can be explained by PSMR concept, I have so far not encountered any observation in the literature, which cannot be explained by this PSMR based hypothesis. We will take some example:

    1. Vacuum Fluctuation.
    I am taking this because in some other religion thread the rationality of the existence of god was being vehemently questioned. We cannot question vacuum fluctuation, because particles pop in and pop out in vacuum, but none knows how.

    The PSMR based hypothesis can explain this, it is proposed that when there is any relaxation in the stretched PSMR then photonic radiation is emitted. The cause is relaxation in the stretched PSMR, no external input is required, only the dynamics of celestial bodies. This hypothesis also predicts that around highly stretched (equivalently speaking highly curved spacetime of GR) PSMR (near Neutron Star etc), the nature of emitted particles will be different, the present mainstream makes no reference to this.

    2. Matter Formation
    In the proposed PSMR theory, the matter is formed when the stretch is beyond a particular limiting point (the limiting stretch is found between quark quarl bond). If some how we can manage to create this kind of stretch in the lab then quarks can be produced in the lab simply from the vacuum (PSMR).

    3. Gravitational Constant G is not constant.

  18. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Well the smart thing to do would be not to believe in either one.

    I thought popping into and out of existence was a math thing.

    But absolutely if unproven or unsupported by an established model then these particles should be questioned as to their existence in the same way God's existence should be questioned.

    And you seem to rely upon some sort of logic for your gravity idea..logic is good but you need evidence to support your ideas.
    Anyways good luck developing your idea.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    Michael 345 likes this.
  19. amber Registered Member

    Gravity is a force , it is a force that is dependent of a body , it is a force over space, not a force of space. If it was a force of space, space would give us inertia and we would not be able move through space.
  20. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

    . . . in Newtonian mechanics.
    No, it depends on two bodies, one is 'gravitating', the other 'inert'. Which is which is arbitrary however, viz the earth and moon.
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    You should take the time to read up on General Relativity which is the current, meaning best, model of gravity.
    It does not use a force at all the talk about gravity.
    Gravity is a result of the bending of space time ...but enough I dont want to spoil the ending for you but at least read what Wiki can tell you which will probably have you back with interesting questions.
  22. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    As per GR in your words the Gravity is a result of bending of spacetime. Here the spacetime is a mathematical entity. Under proposed hypothesis "gravity is the result of stretch in the PSMR". PSMR is not a mathematical entity. It is a state from which both radiation and matter originate.

    In mainstream we have well accepted concept of Dark Matter, one which interacts gravitationally but does not interact electromagnetically. This DM is nothing but stretched PSMR, apart from the mass this stretched PSMR also contributes to gravity and of course it does not interact electromagnetically.

    This is not ether theory, because ether in literature is proposed as some kind of EM matter, so it explains null result of MM experiment as well.

    The point is if we can accept DM, then there is no reason why conceptually we cannot accept PSMR. Once we accept PSMR, all the observations can be explained under this hypo.

    It makes some more predictions:

    1. The universe as a whole is not spinning, it cannot spin.
    2. The expansion of the universe is happening in hitherto un-stretched PSMR, this expansion cannot stop (no crunch), it will continue forever.
    3. Mass cannot be directly converted into energy and vice versa. During such processes, what we see is actually release of stretched energy in the form of radiation. as an analogy consider a stretched spring, mechanical energy is released when the spring is relaxed.
    4. The stable bonding of stars / constellations of a galaxy (to make it a galaxy) requires moalaxy re than the presence of a massive central object. The stretched PSMR around any galaxy along with the central object (?) is crucial for stable dynamics.
    5. Under this hypothesis there is an upper limit on the density of object, any compactness beyond that would cause relaxation in the inner PSMR, thus release of energy and reduction in mass. BH cannot form.
  23. RajeshTrivedi Valued Senior Member

    What is empty space?
    Mainstream is silent on this beyond a point. For example it has permittivity, permeability and even the impedance, so naturally it cannot be nothing.
    Gravity is a force in Newtonian, it is not a force in GR, but then the curved path of our earth around sun is also a straightline in GR!!
    GR says that due to mass the curvature gets created in spacetime, what I am proposing is that once the mass is formed (higher energy density) then the stretch gets created in the surrounding PSMR which is gravity. GR does not say how the curvature gets created, it is clueless;

    So as far as space is concerned it is stretched PSMR, and the values of G, permittivity, permeability, impedance depends on this stretch value. Near highest stretch is present between quark - quark bond. Gluons are nothing but extremely stretched PSMR.

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