An atheist who envies Theists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Do you refute it? Do you refute that the term generalization applies to your assertion?
    (Rhetorical question: you already conceded that it does.)
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But also ostracization.
     
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  5. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I concede I am going to go with your opinion that I generalised such you could form the opinion I was guilty of a logical fallacy.

    Well I often say if you don't know the answer to a question in an argument, which sounds confrontational, rather a discussion don't pose the question.
    Could you not concede that there must be a point in your thinking process that you form an opinion that I had presented a logical fallacy.
    Alex
     
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  7. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Exclusions by inclusion? Explain.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    For social reasons I used to attend church regularly and heard a preacher tell his flock that they should always hire someone of their (his) religion,.....Exclusion

    Try to become a member of a religious Forum. In your profile you must state your religion. If you enter "atheist", you are not allowed to participate in the Forum,....Exclusion.

    This curious religious practice can be found all around the world.
    Religions which proclaim their God as the only True God, are by definition exclusive of all who believe differently.

    I asked a Christian once; "if there is just one God, would Allah be the same God as the Christian God?"
    The answe was; "No"

    Specific ritualized religions are by definition "exclusive" of other religions or rituals, depite their protestations of "inclusiveness"

    How many religions are there, each proclaiming exclusive Truth? Emphasis on "exclusive" and the urging of prostletizing their religion.

    Almost all religions are exclusive and becomes more apparent during times of stress, just like today. Expressions like "God loves you" or "Allah the merciful" don't really mean anything in the real world.
    From George Carlin :
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    Xelasnave.1947 likes this.
  9. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    I've been to several churches in my lifetime, never did they check my credentials at the door.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, neither does "I love you" or "thank you" or "you're welcome" or "congratulations" - but still, such sentiments are often expressed.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    But have you listened to the sermons . And I qualify that some sermons are inspiring conceptually.
    And I am not condemning all religions or pastors (by any other name) out-of-hand.

    But In the first paragraph of # 65 I gave an example of exclusive practices, which are urged upon the flock by some.

    This is most often seen in the practice of marrying a person of your own sect, often forbidden by the parents, the person you love be damned.
     
  12. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Each person or group of people observe their spirituality in their own way. They find meaning in doing so. If I disagreed with one, I would explore another. I personally believe life in itself is a spiritual experience, but I also feel a debt of gratitude towards those who helped make that realization possible. Had I found it entirely through Christianity, I might be using the Bible as a guide, or the church for mutual understanding.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I understand and this is what I try to do.
    I try to take the best and logically secular messages from all religions and philosophies and dump the fairytale rest in the trash can.....

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    "Thou shalt not kill" is a secular tenet, but it seems that the more religious one gets, the more this fundamental tenet is "negotiable" (Carlin)

    The Skeptics Annotated Bible is an excellent book which points out the flaws as well as the good things in the Bible, Qu'ran and Book of Mormons.
    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  15. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    But the fairy tale can have hidden meaning too. Much of what we disregard can offer insight, which is why I feel as though the Bible deserves another look. Nonetheless, as long as you love yourself and your life, you should be fine. Everything else flows from there.
     
  16. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

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    Religion wouldn't be the first time people died under the weight of an idea. Certainly murder is never desirable. The only time it might be justified is in the defense of your own life.
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I disagree with this analogy. If those are honest emotional personal expressions from one person to another they certainly do have meaning, both to the person expressing those emotions as well as to the recipient of such heart-felt acknowledgements.
    When I open the door for a person in a wheelchair I take his "thank you" as a sincere emotional response.
    When I understand and identify with another person's pride in an accomplishmen, my expression of "congratulations" is meant as an acknowledgement of that person's dedication and peristence to accomplish what at one time would have been a daunting challenge. And when I love someone's mind and generosity and have the opportunity to be of service to that person, my "you are very welcome" to his "thank you" comes from my emotional empathy with that person.

    A little example; I went to the supermarket to buy a few trifles which I needed. When I stepped out of the car and was halfway through the parking lot, I realized I had left my wallet at home and became visibly upset with my negligence. A total stranger asked me if he could be of help and I explained the situation.
    He asked how much money I would need to buy what I needed and I told him it wouldn't cost more than ten dollars, he immediately reached into his wallet and handed me a ten dollar bill. I told him that his generosity restored my faith in mankind and I promised to send him a check. At first he refused, but I insisted that I would mail him repayment as soon as I came home. He gave me his address and after I had done my shopping and returned home I wrote him a check for ten dollars, along with a thank you note for his generosity and trust. I was very happy and sincere in returning the money and expressing my gratitude for his generosity. This person was clearly worthy of my respect and gratitude. I hope that he found satisfaction upon receiving my repayment of this small debt.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Oh I read scripture very carefully to find metaphorical truths in the stories, wether they were true or not.

    The problem is that most people take metaphors in scripture as literal fact, and therein lies a danger.

    The story of Adam and Eve being expelled from paradise is clearly a metaphor for the evolutionary process of man's mental leap and divorce from the natural state of adaption to nature and creating our own world and thereby destroying nature, as is obvious today.

    The problem lies in the literal translation that Adam and Eve were the first humans created by god some 6000 years ago and ate the fruit of a sacred tree, which is clearly not true. I am sure hominids had been eating fruit for tens of thousands of years before then.

    And evolution (natural selection) created fruitbearing trees for the very purpose of their fruit being eaten and have the indigestible seeds spread far and wide, surrounded by natural fertilizers. Another wonder of natural evolutionary adaption of procreation in the seemingly unlimited methods of procreation created by natural selection of nature itself.

    I stand in awe of Nature, but I don't assign any mystical attributes to natural functions. Evolution is a probabilistic function and not intentional creation, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I started a thread here asking if the bible should be edited.

    I can't recall the response but it seems that is what a lot of folk do..Well I do...Which is really funny
    when you think about it.

    I follow the respect thing better than any christian that I have met, and all the support the positive emotions and avoid negative stuff.
    Be decent etc, its just that I don't believe JC was a real person, that there was a resurrection, that there is a God.
    Otherwise all good.
    Alex
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I recall reading that and either gave it a "like" or responded with narrative of agreement.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I have been studying religion lately.
    In the past it seemed to change a fair bit, conversion due to wars, seemed rather fluid.
    Alex
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    I agree! And when people use "God loves you" or "Allah the merciful" (or "God bless you" or "thank God") in the same way, then they have a very similar meaning - an honest emotional expression, intended to let the recipient know what the speaker thinks of them and their words or actions. They may not have any real objective meaning, but subjectively they are very meaningful.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I usually don't see such words as an "honest emotional expression". I'm agnostic, there sentiment could be lost on me and making me feel uneasy unless I accept God. And if I don't I could be shunned.
     

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