Any atheists here who were once believers?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by wegs, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    When personality development occurs. Religious or not.
     
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  3. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Interesting point, and I agree.
    Our core personalities are formed early in childhood in part, by influences from family, peers, experiences.

    What do you make of two children who were born in an abusive household, one goes on to lead a healthy, 'moral' life as an adult...and the other leads a life of crime?
     
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  5. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's nature and nurture. Some people who drink and smoke live long lives and some who abstain die much earlier. You aren't guaranteed to get lung cancer if you smoke but if you are so predisposed smoking is definitely not a good practice.

    If you grow up in such an abusive household you may be predisposed to make poor choices but it's not guaranteed.
     
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  7. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    ...deleted
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  8. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Yup, it stays in one's digestive system for days, so indigestible it is ...
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I used cocaine and B. F. Skinnered my morality.
     
  10. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Ha - you win for best post of the entire thread.
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    One of reasons I read here is for the laughs. This remined me of one.

    Lady from the Temperance League was interviewing old (80 years) man who had never even tasted whisky with tape recorder on his birthday. Finally the background noise became so loud it was interfering, so she asked if there was not something he could do about the noise. He replied: No it is very dangerous to interfere with dad when he is drunk.
     
  12. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    That's called hypocrisy, and Christianity is perched firmly on the leading edge of it, always being forced to dance around reality without actually accepting it.
     
  13. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Well, to a religious person, his/her sense of reality stems largely from his/her faith/religion. (and I know how you feel about that (Q) lol, I'm just saying...that is what faith and religion are all about--giving one's life ''over to God'', and not 'the world.') So, while the Catholic Church may appear to be growing in acceptance of 'reality,' it can only do so by betraying (to a degree), for lack of a better word, its own faith teachings, and at the same time, playing with its own definition of reality (ie: evolution) as to not appear like it's betraying its faith teachings. Talk about hypocrisy.

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  14. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    That is indeed the delusion and the denial of reality. Indoctrination is a very powerful tool.

    No faith and religion are all about indoctrination and the capacity to accept beliefs over facts and evidence.

    Exactly. The Catholic Church is forced to having to accept reality, whether it likes it or not. Just look at the things the new Pope is saying these days, things that would have had him lynched by a mob a few hundred years ago.
     
  15. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Lol yeah...true, (Q)

    Re: indoctrination, I don't disagree but what do you make of people who "convert" to a particular religion as adults? As a child, indoctrination would prove to be easier, but how about someone who makes such a choice later in life?

    IOW, do you feel that the only way people adhere to a particular religion is through indoctrination?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    While I agree that is way most (99%?) acquire their faith it is not the only possible way. Especially in an earlier era, civil authorizes needed some priesthood to help with keeping civil order. The priest could make most believe that if they were "bad" the gods would know and punish them even if the society's "police" could be tricked.

    There is still some of this benefit at work today, certainty in rational* agnostic and perhaps even in atheists as man is not entirely rational. Thus, some may at least support the religionist authorizes as they see social good in it. Unfortunately they also see the evil done in the name of god and that normally dominates; However, the current Pope, gives me some hope - he sacked a German Bishop for using 43 million dollars on his residence and the new office complex. Next thing you know, some churches may begin melting down all their gold candle sticks, etc. and feeding the hungry with the proceeds and set up simple production factories to make jobs, or public heath clinics, etc..

    Those golden candle stick could and should be replace with wooden ones, paint them gold if not honest about the change. If that were to happen, hell, even I might be come an "Easter and Xmas" Catholic and put a few coins in the collection plate!

    *Pascal's wager is a valid argument for being "good" even if you are not sure there is a punishing God.
     
  17. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Well, doesn't Pascal's Wager take things a bit further...that any "rational" person should live his/her life "as if" God exists? Some uncomfortable implications coincide with Pascal's Wager. I don't know.

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  18. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    And they pick the wrong times to be genuine. It's been suggested that the reason Americans are not afraid of antibiotic-resistant bacteria is that these bacteria came into existence by the mechanism of evolution. Since they don't believe in evolution, it would be heresy for them to support spending tax money to solve a problem that was caused by a phenomenon which they are certain does not exist.
     
  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Pascal's Wager assumes that only good comes from acting as if God exists. Living one's life as if there is a supernatural being has negative implications as well.
     
  20. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Indeed. A relic of the Stone Age, religion reinforces our atavistic tribal instinct:

    We know the One True God, so all those other fools have got it wrong. God wants us to kill them because they are spreading evil lies.​
     
  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Also, it seems like it would promote false beliefs, and fear.
     
  22. Mazulu Banned Banned

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    There are benefits. It takes the edge off of existential dread that this is the only life we have, and if it's a hard life, too bad. Beyond that, there is something inherently pleasureable about the idea that supernatural phenomenon might exist. It gives people hope (something that atheists can't stand), it gives people a reason to be on their best behavior (even when they don't want to be). Belief in a supernatural also causes the culture to grow into something beautiful, something to be proud of. I am sure the Egyptians are still very proud of the pyramids. The problem with atheist disbelief is that it is cold and hateful, disappointed and negative. Atheism gives those who suffer the middle finger, as if to say, "I'm better than you. Too bad you're life sucks!" At least religion promises things like an after-life, kingdom of God in heaven, reincarnation and another chance to experience life under better conditions. In that sense, religion is compassionate. I'm not surprised that believers will kill atheists to protect themselves from such a dismal reality.
     
  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    He's back.
     

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