# Any vegan photographers out there?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by chunkylover58, Mar 20, 2004.

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1. ### chunkylover58Make it a ... CHEEEESEburgerRegistered Senior Member

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Go digital.

Many vegan "artistes" who have chosen photography as their medium that I have encountered in my former life as a photo retalier do not realize that photographic film contains a gelatin base. Not an animal-friendly product by any means.

3. ### darktr00perRegistered Senior Member

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vegans are a joke

5. ### darktr00perRegistered Senior Member

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another useless product of abundance

7. ### darktr00perRegistered Senior Member

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go tell a starving child not to eat an animal

8. ### blankcYour superiorRegistered Senior Member

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Yes, much better to use a digital camera built from the slave labor of the 3rd world, than to encourage the use of a whole animal, instead of throwing away much of it's corpse. Gelatin is also commonly obtained from seaweed as well btw.

9. ### DaptharGone for Good.Registered Senior Member

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Any substance called gelatin may contain animal products. Blankc, I believe you are thinking of Agar, which is derived from seaweed. Information about gelatin and its "substitutes" can be found here http://www.ivu.org/faq/gelatine.html.

Also, Blankc, I don't believe that every digital camera is assembled in 3rd world countries. Frankly, with a minimal amount of research, one can ensure that they are purchasing a product that was not produced using slave labor. As such, it is foolhardy to assume a digital camera is necessarily produced under said conditions.
Vegetarianism simply another way of regulating one's diet. I wasn't aware that there was humor to be found this practice.

To the contrary, the omnivorous fast-food-based eating habits practiced by many an obese American today are products of abundance. There must be enough farmland to produce food for livestock, pens to hold them, hormones to inject in them, and slaughterhouses to kill them. Only the first two are needed for products that some vegetarians consume, i.e. eggs and milk. The other two are made possible by the abundance you speak of.

No one is forcing vegetarianism upon starving children who would be better benefited by eating meat, so your "argument" is pointless.

10. ### ItalianoRegistered Senior Member

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I really don't understand Christian vegans that don't want to destroy the creation of God. The reason I don't understand is because God specifically told Adam that plants and animals are our food. I could understand being vegetarian if you don't like the taste, but don't feel sorry for the animals. I don't really know where you stand Daphar, are you vegan? Or are you simply pointing out bad logic?

11. ### DaptharGone for Good.Registered Senior Member

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I can't really explain their logic, since I'm neither Christian nor a vegetarian, and currently have no interest in researching their motivations for becoming herbivores.

Nope. Maybe I'll change my diet in a few years.

Always fun to do. That was my primary reason for posting.

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I really do feel sorry for the animals I eat. However my hemoglobin is usually on the low side of normal which means I need to eat meat, green veggis and take iron.

13. ### river-windValued Senior Member

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Thanks for the info, I was unaware of the animal products in film. Not surprising, though.
I moved to digital a few years ago for the  savings re: paper and developer chemicals.

OT:
I don't see an need for some of the replies in this thread. I try to eat veg. as much as possible, for both my own health and for the well being of the animals that I'm not eating. I have no feelings that I need to push my ideas on other people, and if I had a medical condition which required nutrients not readily found in pure vegetable matter, I would eat meat more often.
Humans are designed to eat meat on an occational basis. I personally feel that we have an opurtunity to break ourselves from our given role - we can, if we decide to, live without eating meat. Given the reduction in the suffering of animals that this life role brings about, I personally are striving to become completely veg (and partially vegan eventually, no leather, but honey and non-factory milk is ok, given the pain to production ratio).
Humans are not the only thing on this planet which can feel both physical and emotional pain.

However, I feed my dog beef because she has not made the choice to be a vegetarian, and I'm sure she never will. Her role in life is not to become veg. She is a carnivore, and I respect that.

As for those people who promote veg. like rabid evangelists, I think they are as bad as the anti-veg people; they only succeed in turning off people to the idea of a veg. diet. They cause it to be branded as a cultish exersizse in the minds of the populace.
/OT

Thanks for the info chunkylover58, every little bit of knowledge is helpful.

14. ### chunkylover58Make it a ... CHEEEESEburgerRegistered Senior Member

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I totally agree. One of the things that made me think of that was an experience or two working in photo retail. Having been around some of the rabid veggies who are not so much in your face, but at a minimum are "making a statement." These are the pseudo-gothy college kids who try to be vegan, but are incredibly unhealthy because they eat nothing but potato chips and and popcorn and drink Diet Coke ... anything as long as it has no animals in it. Invariably, these gothies are all Bohemian and arty and constantly walk around with their camera around their neck. They'd come into the store and say, "Do you have any camera straps that AREN'T made of leather? I'm vegan and I'll have nothing to do with the murder or exploitation of animals." I'd show them the neoprene or nylon straps, discuss the features and benefits and costs of each of them, then casually mention, "Ya know, the film that goes in that camera uses gelatin - you know, animal by-products." The pall that would come over their face was priceless. I had a coworker get asked, "Is there any animal-friendly film?" Uh...nope. In fact, even video tape has some animal byproducts - mylar.

I also wonder about all the graphic images PETA has been using for years trying to propogate their message to all the murderous nonvegans. Again, film. Dead animal parts. There's blood on their hands, too.

15. ### ZeroBannedBanned

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[pointless ramble]Well, I'm a vegetarian but not really a vegan. I avoid using animal products for the most part (giving up leather isn't much of a sacrifice since I don't like leather anyway, for some reason ... it smells so bad), but only animal products that involve the killing of animals.

I do consume eggs and milk, because I need a good source of protein and also because I'm realistic. I know I can't just go without eggs right now. Maybe a few years later, if I adjust, I might do that. But not now.

One exception to this rule. If I'm a guest and the host/ess offers meat as the only choice, I'll accept it. The essence of this decision is, that my personal beliefs aren't worth causing a scene at the table to defend. I don't think such a personal principle is worth possibly offending and hurting other people. Coming from the same logic, I am also not one of the "rabid veggies who are in your face" or "making a statement". The fact that my friends took a month before they even noticed I wasn't eating meat says something about how much I keep this personal and not flagrantly public, doesn't it?

I'm not the "pseudo gothy", "extremely unhealthy" stereotype. I am veggie for somewhat religious reasons, but I don't advertise it everywhere I go. I also carefully monitor my sources of protein and make sure I'm getting all the amino acids I need (I'm such a hopeless nerd), for all that's worth.

-- Long live the Female Messiah!
[/pointless ramble]

16. ### chunkylover58Make it a ... CHEEEESEburgerRegistered Senior Member

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Excellent. I honestly have absolutely no problem with a vegetarian diet. If done properly (as you mention, making sure you get the proper balance of amino acids, etc.) it is an extremely healthful way to eat. Unfortunately, it can be a complicated and expensive way to eat, as well. I've given it a try. The ones I'm concerned with are those I mentioned who pretty much do it as sort of a "fad" and don't put too much thought into it. Often they become anemic and malnourished because they simply do not know what is the proper thing to eat. There are many ways to get calcium other than consuming dairy.

There are many ways to get essential vitamins and minerals other than eating meat. Same goes for protein. It just takes a lot more effort and understanding. It would take a mix of various greens, legumes, grains, and various other veggies to get the same amount of B vitamins, protein, calcium, and iron in a double cheeseburger. However, the plate of veggies and grains and so forth will have a LOT less fat, absolutely NO cholesterol, and plenty of soluble and insolubal fiber to help lower blood serun cholesterol and keep the pipes clean.

The problem for most of us in our culture, a double cheebugger and fries and a Coke costs about \$3 at Mc D's and you just drive up and ask for it at the window. To get the other, you'd probably spend about half that just on a head of broccoli, and you'd have to take the time to make that meal at home. To make it taste good so that you would eat that way regularly so that it wouldn't get boring, you need to have at least a modicum of culinary skills. Otherwise, you'd get tired of a plate of beans and rice and a side of broccoli every other meal.

17. ### SwedishFishConspiratorRegistered Senior Member

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yes, me mate bought a terribly expensive camera before finding out that there is gelatin in the photo emulsion. since he already paid so much for it, he decided to swollow his pride and be unethical in that area. i've done SEM developing which also uses gelatin emulsion film.

18. ### Daturasurrender to nothingRegistered Senior Member

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So now it's bad to have compassion?

19. ### lixlukeRefined ReinventionValued Senior Member

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I'm a vegan although I consume nothing but animal product. It's just that I don't know how to quit.

You're a joke.

20. ### ZeroBannedBanned

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Actually, chunky, I have no knowledge of cooking whatsoever. I'm still pulling it off, and I do believe I feel much sharper and less groggy after a meal.

-- Long live the Female Messiah!

21. ### chunkylover58Make it a ... CHEEEESEburgerRegistered Senior Member

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I bet. My current diet (if it works out the way it should, which it rarely does) is a week of 2 dinners of chicken, 2 dinners of fish, 2 no meat dinners (all with veggies and rice or pasta), and a weekend night of pizza or burgers or steak or wings or whatever greasy nasty stuff for which I have a craving. The latter is oh so good going down, but I feel like crap for the next 24-36 hours. Upset stomach, sleeplessness, grogginess, etc. Not so with the other 6 meals of the week. People always ask me, "Why do you eat that stuff if you know it'll make you feel that way." Well, back in the days when I was 50lbs heavier, I ate that way all the time, and I felt that way all the time. I think once a week is acceptable.

Anyhoo, Zero, you really might be interested in some of the amazingly good vegetarian cookbooks out there. Simple stuff for those not so handy in the kitchen, but lots of really interesting ways to spice things up and add variety to a meatless diet. It was my desire to make a veggie meal more interesting and tasty that led me to become more adept at the culinary arts. It's made me a damn fine chef.

22. ### ZeroBannedBanned

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Oh, but for people who think veggies are boring try the following lacto-vegetarian sandwich idea.

Start with whole wheat bread. Toast them lightly if you want. Put green leafy lettuce, a few leaves of baby spinach, a few thinly sliced raw cucumber sheets, a nice small "bush" of sprouts on one side. Maybe you can add raw onions and tomato if you want, but try not to stuff too much in here or it might fall over.

Put one or two slices of swiss cheese on the other side. Then, on the veggie side, add an extra layer of raw, sliced JALAPENO peppers and just put the two sides together to make a complete sandwich.

The jalapenos add a ferocious kick to an otherwise bland sandwich. Who says veggie meals have to be boring?

-- Long live the Female Messiah!

23. ### chunkylover58Make it a ... CHEEEESEburgerRegistered Senior Member

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OK, not to start a recipe-swapping thread, but there are some bakeries (Panera Bread, for one) that have tomato-basil bread (I suppose the homemade bread types can make it, too). Great stuff. Anyhoo, I like to take that, heat up a skillet with some olive oil and sauteed garlic, put a slice of bread in there, add some shredded mozzarella on top, add some sundried tomatoes, top with another slice of tomato basil bread. Cook til cheese is melty and both sides are golden brown. A wonderfully Italiany grilled cheese sandwich. Yummers.