Are all dissenting voices cranky ?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by The God, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Dissent = the holding or expression of opinions at variance with those commonly or officially held.

    No wonder going against an officially held view will be ridiculed or derided, but that should limit itslef to politics. Science should welcome dissent, it should have a mechanism to handle criticism, it should have a methodology to gain from the dissent and infact it should create a critical approach too. But of course we must be able to identify what is cranky and what is not. For example IMO Flat earthers are cranky but those who question the existence of a Black Holes are not.

    Now you may ask why this thread is in science section, because I am opening this thread to all who have any view contrary to what is commonly held, and I urge all those who know about the subject to counter them, to establish that commonly held belief is really truth.


    It is quite likely that for some issues...the best answer should be..look this is a problem area, but this is how it is as on date....I feel this would be the great way of tackling dissent on some teethy issues rather than pushing the parrotized stuff.


    It will also be in order to to understand the cause of dissent...It could be because of mis application, it could be because of mis interpretation, it could be because of pure ignorance or it could be due to agenda of that poster, and may be the dissent is on genuine ground. So unless this is identified, people should not brush it aside. Also the poster who would raise a dissenting point must clearly express the grounds for his dissent, and these grounds must be rebutted. At the end we must be able to conclude, settled, not settled, settled but dissenter is willfuly not listening, genuine point needs further work.


    All are welcome to post there dissent with the mainstream views clearly specifying the grounds for the dissent, I will start in my subsequent posts. some of the topics possibly have been discussed in the past, but I want to conclude, so it is my pray to all, espectially to Mr Paddoboy, not to copy paste and clutter the thread, he can just cite the reference or just give the links with few words in suppport of his argument. The argument that it has come from scientists working at the coal fields with state of art equipement and thus must be correctr, is a no-go.

    And please note I am not a crank, I love science, I am well qualified, I understand more than graduate level maths and Physics and I want satisfactory response, which any prudent man would accept. I dont accept bulldozing or blind obeisance to authorities, infact science should not have any relationship with words like bulldozing and authorities.
     
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  3. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you think that?
     
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  5. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Simple one first...

    1. Is our solar system directly orbiting the GC, or is there any other intermediate Sol/System to which our solar system is orbiting ?

    Mainstream Position : The pictorial representation of our Galaxy shows that our solar system is orbiting the GC directly, with a galactic year of around 225 million years, and radial distance from GC being around 25000 light years.

    My Stand : The question is inconclusive. Its not that I have a proof that mainstream stand is not true and alternative is true.

    Grounds :

    1. Our observation is limited to only a few hundred years as against 225 million years.
    2. Despite mammoth progreess in the field of astronomy, the vast work still remains to be done.
    3. We are still looking for planets in our solar system, and we are still working on oort cloud (nearby structures only a few light hours away), suggesting that no thumping statement can be made about our orbital motion strictly around GC.
    4. Only recently, our Milky Way was understood to be larger than what it was originally thought of, so we really are not sure about span of Milky Way in totality.
    5. The number of stars / star systems in our galaxy around our Solar system is very very large, we have observed many binary systems (Star - Star) in the galaxy, infact it is assumed that more than 33% stars in our Milky way galaxy are in binary - binary or in multi star formation...So the probability of we being in that system cannot be less than that and thats too huge to negate without conclusive evidence or proof.

    So, what I am looking for to change my stand is some kind of confirmation, some kind of work which points to a fair degree of certainty, that our solar system is directly orbiting GC, there is no intermediate orbital point before the bigger journey of combined system around GC.
     
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, you don't mean cranky grumpy; you mean cranky crackpotty. Took me a moment.

    If the arguments are sound and well thought out, then I would say it is possible to be dissenting without being cranky.
    The problem is, the times that (well-thought out arguments that go against the scientific foundation we've built over centuries) are few and far between.
     
  8. The God Valued Senior Member

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    In some other thread it is being discussed that how to handle the science forum behavior etc. I have seen you are also one of the problem creator. Your contribution is nil, I have not seen any content posts by you, you just irritate people and then run away, causing derailment of the thread. And admittedly you have no basic knowledge of science and maths. So, people like you should not question others opinion. You have to demonstrate a basic level of understanding of science and Physics, then only you should be granted a status of senior member on such sub fora.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's enough, TG.
    You know perfectly well there are plenty of people who would say the same of you. Who is right?
    It is silly to attempt to engage in a contest to see who can piss the farthest on an internet forum.

    Just stay on topic, or at least let others do so.
     
  10. The God Valued Senior Member

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    There are situations especially in cosmology, where the dissenting voice of even those who are educated and once upon a time part of mainstream are not being listened to. I do not think we can call them crackpots.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That's pretty much what I'm saying.
    But it does require arguments that are sound and well thought out.
     
  12. river Valued Senior Member

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    Who decides sound and we'll thought out arguments ?
     
  13. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Most of my science discussions are on a different forum that doesn't have such a bad reputation when it comes to tolerating cranks, crackpots, and woo peddlers.

    And I'd like you to point out where I said I had no basic knowledge of science and maths.
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly not the carryings on, on any science forum, we can all be sure of that.
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Don't worry too much Daecon: Our friend the god is smarting over near all on this forum, having the audacity in rejecting his nonsense.
     
  16. river Valued Senior Member

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    Assuming you understand his perspective .
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Too the best of our knowledge, our solar system orbits the galactic center, along with all other stellar systems.
    Obvious there are error bars with relation to distant factors, but the many state of the art equipment, both on ground and in orbit, has not invalidate that model for quite a while, and in fact it is reinforced, with some minor adjustments to figures etc.

    You of course, like the rest of us, are totally behind the eight ball in accessing the direct equipment and data re these facts as they stand today, and obviously are not even qualified to make an uneducational guess.
    In that respect, the figures, the knowledge and the model stand as the current most accurate at this time.
     
  18. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Well, Daecon has invalidated your well intended support..


    So, not only this guy Daecon admits not posting meaningful stuff here, but keeps this forum in bad view. This validates my stand that he comes to irritate only. Do we need to support or feed such people ? Nope..
     
  19. The God Valued Senior Member

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    This is no argument...In your first para you have just repeated what I said about mainstream...and in subsequent para you took the standard position that those guys cannot be wrong..Try to offer a better argument/citation in support of mainstream position, which may conclude the position with a greater probability.
     
  20. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Oh please, if someone told you that 1+1=2 you'd just complain that they were parroting the mainstream.

    And it's because of cranks like you that I hold this forum in "bad view".
     
  21. The God Valued Senior Member

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    I don't smart, Paddoboy. Thats for weak hearted guys. Nothing I posted here is nonsense...
     
  22. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Quite un-patriotic. Well you are fed here, I would not have tolerated people like you..perma ban on this admission that not only you don't contribute here but you keep the forum in bad view. Out you go, this very instant..

    Well you asked me where you admitted that you do not know basics of Physics and maths. You did not but its clear....you admitted that you do not know that angles are measured in radians too......well Physics and maths will be obviously beyond you in that case.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Dissent of course can be totally justified and also unjustified and no more than ranting and protecting and/or promoting one's credibility, particularly if it is somewhat lacking in stature.
    And of course the fabricated dissent that often comes from other quarters with religious agendas for example, or those with inflated egos, somehow believing they can rewrite cosmology from a science forum.

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    Plus of course any new hypothesis must falsify or predict more than the incumbent model, and obviously is not going to resurrect itself on a forum such as this.
    Contrary views are a dime a dozen, particularly when coming from science forums, open to any Tom, Dick and Harry, and are mostly baseless and a result of maladies aforementioned.


    The areas that remain debatable and questionable in science are at this very moment, being questioned and debated by the professionals in academai and mainstream.....That's their job.
    Great stuff for debates among amateurs like you and I on a science forum, but it really holds no sway or credibility among the Professionals and the instruments and first hand knowledge at their disposal.
    As you have been told officially before, and as I have told you, what I copy n paste is my business and will continue to be done when I see fit.
    The last time I looked you had not assumed administrator or owner of this forum yet.
    When that happens, I will then bow to your demands.

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    Firstly self praise is no recommendations, and secondly I certainly do not accept blind obeisance to offline, pretend, self appraised, supposed experts, nor their bullying and bulldozing attempts.
    Alrighty?
     
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