Are all dissenting voices cranky ?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by The God, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary, moderators can butt in whenever they like, if a warning is in order.
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    TG you said ......
    " I have already set the ball rolling with our solar system....the commonly held view is that it orbits around GC...The point of discussion is how is so when there are billions of stars and around 33% are in binary or multi stars arrangement.. "

    What is the point you make?
    Is it that you claim the Sun has a companion?
    If so upon what evidence?
    If not what is your point?
    Alex
     
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  5. Confused2 Registered Senior Member

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    If we were in a binary pair wouldn't the CM of the BP be orbiting the CM of the GC?
    The precession of Mercury was known in 1859 - there have been good and careful observers around for (?) 200 years. Any hints of the BP yet?
     
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  7. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly, and the god even raising that peculiarity within our solar system, has SFA to do with what he is, or is not trying to propose.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    On the contrary contrary, in a public forum, this is for anyone who cares to contribute, including pad. There is no 'butting out' in a public discussion.
     
  9. The God Valued Senior Member

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    That's what I said....a bigger system then orbiting the GC..

    What makes it more compelling is that 250 myears orbit of a small spec called our solar system around GC, may be very uncertain, may get lost in one round itself...

    The idea is not that I am pushing it, idea is how we eliminated this possibity ? What are the positive indications, except lack of observation, which establishes directly around GC ?
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not sure where this is leading, but I believe it is generally agreed that our movement around the galaxy is influenced by local stars, as theirs is by us. Though I suspect that the deviation is miniscule compared to the overall galactic rotation.
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I think I see you point.
    You suggest our orbit is not a perfect circle and that is correct I think but I have no authority.
    I suppose the solar system may follow a spiral course if it does that does not necessarily mean it is part of a binary system. However it may. What data is available?
    Are you asking or speculating?
    Alex
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    We have no evidence whatsoever of our Sun being a part of any larger stellar system. The closest system is Alpha Centauri at 4.3 L/years, Barnard's star at 6 and Wolf 359 at 7.7 .
    End of story:
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Needless to say gathering data would necessarily need to be over 250 million years so as to plot the course for entire galactic orbit.
    But it just occurred to me if we can not observe a star causing our "wobbles" it may be our solar system is in a binary relationship with a black hole.
    Could it be TG has found evidence of a black hole?
    Before we get carried away we need to work out what data exists as to our course. Interesting but we only speculate without data.
    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    The more I think about this the more apparent the difficulty in making observations.Whatcould we use as a reference star..how would we work out how it moves about...mmmmmm
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The solar system orbits around the SMBH and the galactic center, although there are other motions superimposed on the generality of the orbit due to the non symmetric distribution of the mass between our solar system and the galactic center. We consequently have small movements towards the center and away from the center, and also motions above and below the spiral arm in which we are at this stage.
    The Sun does not orbit directly any other stars and is a single stellar system, amid a huge variety of stellar systems within the galaxy...binary, trinary and even greater systems.
    The galaxy members are kept as a galactic structure due to the effects of each stars gravity on other stars and so on, with of course the controlling feature of the SMBH near the center: Also throughout the MW galaxy system is conglomerations and streams of DM as well as in the form of a halo structure around the galaxy proper.
    Our own galaxy the Milky Way is gravitationally bound to many other galaxies in what we call the local group, which is then part of an even larger conglomerate galactic structure called the Virgo Supercluster.
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Excellent run down Paddoboy.
    Although I am not sure of the gravitational influence of the SMBH upon us by itself the gravitation influence would not be much at all.
    But I dont know how to work it out but I think a jet flying over has more gravity effect. Whats that rule as to how gravity drops off...Your help here would be appreciated.
    Alex
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Inverse square rule ..I have a mind memory lapse.
    Alex
     
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  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed from our position, but the collective gravity of the inner stars that are affected more by the SMBH gravity, that then affects the outer stars such as our Sun.......
     
  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed, fair point.
     
  20. rpenner Fully Wired Valued Senior Member

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    I will bet you USD $1000 that you are wrong.

    Science can't tell you. Only what he is composed of and what his likely behaviors are.
    Science news is at least science.
    Even Einstein thought including a tutorial in tensor math was a good idea when writing to people who wanted to know what General Relativity was.
    Post #3 is just a mishmash of irrelevant musings on the unevidenced proposal that the Sun has a stellar companion. It ignores that the Sun is not in a Keplerian orbit about a point mass by that the galaxy is diffuse, so misstates the mainstream position which it purports to take issue with. It ignores that such a companion would not make the solar system any less bound to the galaxy. It ignores what the definition of the solar system should be if there is such a companion. It ignores that any solar companion is likely to be less massive than the sun. It ignores that the planets are in a narrow band which makes it unlikely they were recently perturbed by any nearby star. You can't use bulk statistics to argue the sun has a companion when we have lots of evidence where the companion isn't. You ignore that the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that it matters if the Sun has a companion because even if it does the "greater solar system" would still be gravitationally bound to the Galaxy.

    Are you arguing that because I didn't take action, justice was unnecessarily delayed?
    I'm not prejudiced against you. Any negative feelings I have about your behavior is caused by your behavior.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  21. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

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    Paddoboy, in a mediocracy you and your straw men are king.
     
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  22. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    That's OK, why not address the issue at hand.......
    Which at this stage seems to be a half hearted claim that the Sun could be part of a multiple stellar system,,,at least until the god decides to move the goal posts again.
     
  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    What evidence or even belief are we to consider.
    What doesTG see as any reason for this.
    I dont get what he is driving at.
    TG why do you think we may be in a binary system.
    Alex
     
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