Are theists and atheists epistemic peers?

The two are opposites (they are mutually exclusive) but there must be a place where the two meet.

 

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In as much as atheism is a religion it is the epistemic peer of religion. If you substitute religion and atheism for one another in your arguments you might find the results interesting.

 

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Which would mean that there is no more to theism than there is to atheism.


It would mean that a view like this is correct:

 

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Whatever that's supposed to mean.

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What is a scientific learner?
And what is a theist learner?

jan.

 

You started this, you explain your stance.


Other than that:

The fact that some scientists are also theists could also simply mean
1. that theism and science are not mutually exclusive, but cover different areas of human experience,
2. that those theists have particular idiosyncratic theistic beliefs (ie. they are not "ordinary theists"),
3. that being a theist has nothing to do with a person's occupation.


As noted earlier in the thread, if God exists and some people (ie. theists) really know Him, then this means these people have some special experience that sets them apart from other people, thus meaning that theists and non-theists are not epistemic peers.

 

Signal,

A theist is a person who BELIEVES in God, that is the meaning theist.
To talk of ''really knowing Him'' in validates your points.

jan.

 

Is Harold Kushner a theist? I started a thread for this, see there.
He believes that God is good, but powerless.

What do you mean?

Why would some people's knowing God make them epistemic peers with those who do not know God?

 

I don't know if he's a theist, as i don't know if he believes in God.

jan.

 

It's back to what it means to "believe in God."


Please reply to this:

What do you mean?

Why would some people's knowing God make them epistemic peers with those who do not know God?

 

What do you mean by ''knowing God''?

jan.

 

Knowing entails believing in; but believing in is not yet knowing.

In the fullest sense, knowing means to know something for what it is and know one knows it.

There is also the kind of knowing where a person knows something, but doesn't know he knows it, or doesn't know whether he has arrived at the knowledge the right way.


There are four stages of competence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence

1. Unconscious Incompetence
2. Conscious Incompetence
3. Conscious Competence
4. Unconscious Competence


I think similar goes for knowledge:

1. Unconscious Ignorance: one doesn't know and one doesn't know one doesn't know
2. Conscious Ignorance: one doesn't know and one knows one doesn't know
3. Conscious Knowledge: one knows and one knows one knows
4. Unconscious Knowledge: one knows and one doesn't know one knows

There will possibly be a dispute whether item 3 is higher than 4.

 

I would argue that given your ''in the fullest sense...'' decription. there are no examples of ''those who do not know God''.

You assume that because one is an athiest, one does not know God, but the description means one does not hold a belief in God, as opposed to holding a belief in God. Either position requires some ''knowledge'' of God.

If you secretly assume the definition of ''knowing God'' to mean one knows Him personally, as one would know a freind, or acquaintence, then you're going beyond the definition of theism.


jan.

 

There shouldn't be: In the fullest sense, knowing means to know something for what it is and know one knows it.
Or are you arguing that "those who do not know god" actually do know, and know that they know while, at the same time, somehow don't know?

Hmm, how would an atheist know god?

Incorrect.

Try reading what is written in the post as opposed to what you'd like to refute. That's not what was said or assumed.

 

Dwy...


...do you believe in God?

jan.

 

Can you answer the questions?

And I would have thought that you'd have gathered by now that the answer to your question is "no".
Is this another attempt at deflection?

 

Why don't you believe in God?
A simple answer would suffice.

jan.

 

Another attempt at diversion. Please stop it.
And that question has previously been answered by me on a number of occasions.

 

It's not a diversion.
I'm trying to prove a point, but it requires straight answers.

jan.