aryan invasion - fact or fiction?

Fixing History - interview with b b lal

On the Aryan Invasion theory

The Indus civilization came to a peak from 2600 bce to 1900 bce. Marauding Aryans [war-like tribes from central Asia, central to an invasion theory long believed by Western Indologists] can no longer be held responsible for the destruction of the Harappan civilization. Perhaps climactic changes, environmental degradation and a steep fall in trade robbed the civilization of its affluence.

On who lived in Indus Valley

The flourishing trade, affluence, social order and a lifestyle of luxury had attracted to Indus Valley, the earliest civilization of South Asia, people from varied races and regions, even outside of the continent. Skeletons excavated indicate that the population comprised Mediterraneans, Caucasoids, Armenoids, Alpines, Australoids and Mongoloids [meaning people from as far away as China and Europe were living in Indus Valley].

On yajna fire worship

Fire altars [which figure prominently in the ancient Vedic texts] have been found in Banawali, Lothal and Kalibangan cities of the Indus Valley. They are found in houses and also in public places. In Kalibangan, a row of seven fire altars has been found in the southern half of the "Citadel," major part of the city. My chapter on religion in The Earliest Civilization of South Asia deals extensively with fire altars, built in such a way that the worshipper can sit facing the east [an important point, for the fire altars described in the Vedas all allow the worshipper to face east].

On the date of the Vedas

The river Saraswati was a major river both in the Vedas and in the Harappan civilization, flowing from the Himalayan mountains to the Bay of Bengal. [Long thought mythical, it was recently rediscovered in the deserts of Rajasthan from satellite images]. The sites at Kalibangan were ruined around 1900 bce due to the drying up of Saraswati [caused by massive climatic changes and shifts in the Earth's surface]. The Vedas must date before that. Sanskrit probably existed 2000 years before 1900 bce [putting the origin of Sanskrit before 4000 bce]. It can easily take two millenniums for a language to originate and develop to the level of versifying and compositions in meters.

PROF. B.B. LAL, F-7 HAUZ KHAS ENCLAVE, NEW DELHI 110016 INDIA. THE EARLIEST CIVILIZATION OF SOUTH ASIA IS AVAILABLE FROM ARYAN BOOKS INTERNATIONAL, 4378/4B POOJA APARTMENTS, 4, ANSARI ROAD, DARYA GANJ, NEW DELHI 110002 INDIA.

fixing history

 

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this is ridiculous. the paucity of skeletal remains within that particular period hardly supports the assertion that aryans are native to india. the uncritical acceptance of research done by those with seemingly dubious credentials is astounding.

may i add that satellite photography from nasa has proved beyond a doubt that sanskrit was the language in Indus valley civilization

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I miss spookz.

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huh?

...message too short...

 

I think he might be referring to the finding of the trail of, now dried up, river saraswati, mentioned in vedas.

 

come on, gentleman!
barring the presence of letters landscaped into the earth, spelling out...we speak sanskrit, how does one figure out the lingua franca from a satellite photo?

how do you interprete the smiley?
i am simply mocking these self proclaimed experts, and their nationalist agendas. it is a play on their farfetched claims.

the topic however, is worthy of a discussion. perhaps i shall iniate a thread in the history forum.

 

During recent history we can observe the spread of English. Welsh and Native American languages have disapeered. In India today, when a Marathi person wants to speak to a Bengali person they speak in English. It would not be all that surprising if English completely replaces many of India's languages over the next two hundred years.

What clues do we have about the Arayans? We know about their religion, their caste system, and perhaps their language family. We don't know for sure that a people called Arayans introduced Indo-European language, and the Vedas and Caste Sytem to India, but it seems to be probable history.

It also seems that the same ethnic groups entry into Iran is the source of the word Iranian. The languages of Europe are considered by linguists to have separated from each other relatively recently compared to the length of time that humans have been in Europe. There is no reason to think that Indo-Europeans genocided all the pre-existing Europeans except the Basques. The Spanish Language is the Language of Mexico through Peru although the majority of the Human DNA in that region is Native American DNA. In the USA the disparity of weaponry and other factors made the genocide of Native Americans the choice of the USA's citizens. Genocide seems to have been much less common than Overlordship or cohabitation with trade.

While English may replace many Indian languages the rise of English does not mean that English people and English DNA are replacing Indian DNA. The Caste system reeks of an overlord to exploited people relationship. In Haiti today Mulato descendants of house slaves still struggle to maintain their dominance over the darker more African descendants of field slaves. I bet that a cattle herding, theiving and trading and slave taking Indo European speaking people came to dominate but not replace the farming and hunter gathering people from the Atlatic coast of Europe all the way through India.

The North Indians may have been lighter colored than the South Indians before the Arayans ever arrived. The scatterring of Non-Dravidan and Non-Indo-European languages reminds me that India's history is very complex and old. Before the Arayans entered India a Dravidan people from some unknown part of India came to dominate India and replaced a myriad of older Indian languages. We can see from Native America and other places that in the absense of extensive intermarriage, extensive trade, and overlord domination, we should expect much greater liguistic diversity. If we created magical walls separating the American people into 1000 subsectors that would not be allowed to communicate with each other, and then we wait 800 years and remove the magical walls we would find the people speaking 1000 fully separate languages each of which was derived from American English.

So why do only the Indians, Pakistanis and Iranians seem to have any historical memory of the arrival of the Indo-Europeans? I think the Indo-Eropeans were Illiterate and their arrival was only recorded when they subdued and merged with more advanced history keeping people.

The Indo-Europeans / Arayans probably subdued Europe a little earlier than they subdued North India. It may have taken hundreds of years for these people to complete each few hundred miles of invasion/ migration. During each few hundred miles of migration they may have interbred with the local people and aquired slaves. Various conflicting linguists have suggested the Ukraine, Georgia, and Khazakistan as probable sources for the Indo European Languages and therefore the Ancestors of the Arayans.

 

Not always,this is subjective really.Some do,some dont...

North Indians Migrated long time ago from Caspian see region is a Myth and its pure Bull shit.

gee...

bye!

 

Has anyone seen the documentary (discovery channel??) about the european mummies discovered in the deserts of China? I think they dated to 4-5 thousand years old. Could this have been a migration from europe that coincides with all this Aryan invasion of India talk? And could this migration have been caused by the great flood of the Black Sea? Or whatever sea it was. Been awhile and my memory fuzzed on name of the sea.

 

Sahra Merrill

I am also interested in the topic that you are discussing and appreciate the work that you have all been doing in order to investigate this more thoroughly.

I wonder sincerely where the idea of Brahm and Saraswati originated .

 

wow...Gustav used to be so nice and moral...

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There is alot of misinformation here.

First of all, there is no scientific evidence of a massive Aryan invasion from the north of India. There is, however, evidence for a steady migration from Central Asia into Northwestern India (Pakistan and neighboring Indian states such as Rajasthan and Indian Punjab). As a matter of fact, those living in this region are the direct descendants of the people of the Indus river valley civilization (starting from anywhere from 3000 to 2500 BC). There are no differences in the skull form and anatomy of the Indus River Civilization and in consequence those deemed as Aryan migrants.

It seems the Farsi language and Northern Indian language Sanskrit are related, and come from the same source. Therefore the modern people of Northwestern South Asia subcontinent (Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Indian Rajasthan and Punjab) are related ethnically to the people of Iran.

This link should help those who are interested about this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

 

Not to offend anyone here, but i thought that "aryan" was a term used by nazi Germany to classify non Germans.

 

The germans simply borrowed a few ideas