Atheism, theism and jelly beans

Discussion in 'Religion' started by James R, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    The over riding aspect of this forum is that it is a science forum. Therefore those that push the religious aspect/myth, Bigfoot nonsense, UFO delusions, and/or any other paranormal/supernatural/ID nonsense, still need to run the scientific gauntlet of the scientific method and what it represents.
    Other forums also have religious sections, and as those proposing those non scientific concepts fail to support their stance, they are quickly closed/shut down. Here the quantity of such nonsense seems to over ride the quality.
     
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  3. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    You'll be surprised at how many scientific answers lie in philosophy, but a true scientist will never get it.
     
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  5. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    That wasn't meant as defensive at all. I'm literally asking you, to see if you come to the same conclusion I did, without me biasing the result. If you have already reasoned such things out for yourself, I'm genuinely interested to know your conclusion. I assume my reasoning could be reached by others, and it is in no way personal. But I am not the one in need of convincing here. You are. And as such, there are points where you opening the door yourself is much more compelling than anything I could hope to convey second-hand.

    At least, you've talked as if you were genuinely open to being convinced.

    Then what other explanations are there?

    Again, if there are alternatives to just throwing our hands up, I'm all ears. Not in my nature to just dismiss hard philosophical questions. Many conclusions we have not come to ourselves sound like pretense.

    Does belief in existence alone add anything to life? Considering the success and freedom of things like the US is predicated upon Judeo-Christian values, God seems to add quite a bit.

    So you're fine with infinite regresses? You've yet to explain how an infinite regress is not fallacious.

    Of course, with the addendum that only one hypothesis makes claims of possibly having physical evidence.

    A multiverse is just a collection of physical universes, with possibly varying laws of physics.

    I'm familiar, but not sure what that has to do with the relation of God to this or multiple universes. A God could just as readily create a multiverse, with each being a laboratory for different natural laws. My mention of the consistency of natural laws would then only apply to each universe individually. So I'm not sure how you think a multiverse is competition for the idea of a God.

    I have no reason to think that our subjective experience arises solely from our physical bodies. Otherwise, some experiment should have illuminated that terra incognita by now. Likewise, I see no reason to think that we have no "genuine ability to do otherwise", although I think that requires deterministic cause and effect. The only experiment that seemed to show our perception of free will was illusory, Libet, was fairly recently debunked. Believing science will do things we have no evidence it may do is scientism, but your prerogative.

    We certainly do not, as yet, have a physical accounting for them. You can call that "God of the gaps", but how long must science go without answering some of these question without it becoming scientism, i.e. "science of the gaps"?
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I would contend adding god, as per a god in the form of those type which religion push forward, subtracts personal experience

    Those who follow religion, have to my idea, outsourced their wonderment of the Universe for a prepackaged one size fits all

    Of course doesn't and it puzzles myself when you hear someone say they did not like religion X so I changed to religion Y

    Weird

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  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  9. pluto2 Registered Senior Member

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    Science contradicts religion.

    Science says that we evolved, like all other life on earth, and I know that I rather believe in science rather than in religion.

    According to science we live in a competitive survival of the fittest kind of world so this pretty much contradicts religion by saying that we were all created by an omnipotent and all-caring God, a God that there is pretty much until now no shred of proof for.

    https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01
     
  10. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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  11. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    And it is usually scientists who move things from the unknown into the known column.
     
  12. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No great scientists in the entirety of the past 100 years?

    How many scientists' work and contributions are you aware of, davewhite04?
     
  14. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Well the discovery of the double helix is my favourite in the last 100 years.

    But, which scientific discoveries are you thinking about?
     
  15. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Madam and Piere Curie and Henri Bequeral for the discovery of radioactivity and those ores.
    Hans Bethe and his work on stellar nucleosynthesis.
    Neils Bohr for his work on atomic structure and quantum theory.
    Richard Feynman for his work on quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics and superfluidity.
    Stephen Hawking for his work on astrophysics and Hawking Radiation.
    Alan Turing for his work on mathematics code breaking.
    Max Planck for his work on light and energy quanta.
    Jonas salk for his vaccine against Polio probably the greatest scourge of the 40's and 50's.
    Enrico Fermi and Leo Szillard for the separate work on atomic and nuclear energy.
    And obviously many many more to the above list of which I am familiar with.
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Penicillin? Pretty much changed the course of medicine.

    Hard to believe that's only 90 years ago...
     
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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Ahh yes, Alexander Fleming and Howard Florey!!
     
  18. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    I understand your lust to show off! But I was interested in what James had to say.
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    And of course Willhem Roentgen for his discovery of X-Rays albeit rather serendiptiously.
     
  20. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    James? James who?

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  21. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Just reading about it, very interesting.

    Very observant fella.
     
  22. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Which one is your favourite?
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Havn't really got one...maybe Leo Szillard or Dicky Feynman...For sheer hard work and determination though Madam Curie and her husband Pierre...truly inspiring reading up on their lives.
     

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