Atheist Contributions to the World

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Prince_James, Oct 27, 2006.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    The concept of Brahman seems different from that of chaos


    Again if you look at the history of India, it seems more likely that the Hindus originated here.


    And the genetic evidence seems to support the last

    I believe he was not intolerant, and the death of the Sikh leader was a personal vendetta

    From the 8th century to the 12th (when the Mughals came in)?

    Quite possible, after all it was not unusual for traders to settle in a prosperous location and India was much much more prosperous than Arabia, which at that time consisted of warring tribes and Christian Crusades. In comparison, India was relatively peaceful and must have been attractive to traders interested in improving their lives.

    This is also supported by the the strong Muslim communities found in Southern India, modern day Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Western Burma, Indonesia and Philippines coupled with the distinctive lack of equivalent Muslim communities around the heartland of historical Muslim Empires in the Indian Sub-Continent.
    Of course, there were incursions by Asian Turks all over Asia and Genghis Khan alone killed a whole lot of people for imperialistic purposes. Temples were destroyed because many of them were made of gold or had gold icons. But these were marauders, not conquerers. Their purpose was chiefly to plunder, not rule. And they plundered from China to Arabia.

    Perfect societies are a myth, because human beings are imperfect.

    I believe in giving everyone a voice. Sometimes you learn the nicest things from the most unexpected sources.

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  3. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    SamCDKey:

    Let's move the discussion of Aryan religion over to the other thread, too. The Mughal stuff we should probably move to anothre thread, too, but not to the Aryan issues. I'll respond to those here for the time being.
     
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  5. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    SamCDKey:

    Isn't this rather like killing the Pope and then claiming it is not some vendetta against Sikhism as a whole? With relations all ready strained, having the Guru executed seems more than simply a personal issue.

    Are we not forgetting that many moved to Pakistan and Bangladesh (then part of Pakistan) following the end of the British Raj?

    Actually, the history of Mongol conquests did include empire-building, considering that they overtook most of Arabia, Russia, the Caucacus, China, Central Asia...

    Democracies are not only imperfect, they are downright harmful. They drown out all the good voices for the bad.
     
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  7. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

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    atheisms contributions to the World:

    Protestant Rebellion and the incipient destruction of Western Catholic Civilization.

    The Slave Trade.

    Rum Running

    The Opuim Wars

    Usury and the Exploitation of Proletariat in the Factory System

    The French Revolution

    The Communist Revolutions

    The Secular Wars -- World War I and II

    The Chinese Communist Revolution

    The Cambodian Killing Fields.

    The Crime Organizations spreading out from Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union -- all 3rd Generation Atheists and so without the slightest trace of Moral Education or Sensibility.


    And so it is that the World is poised on the verge of extinction -- with Global Warming and the depletion or resources all while unemployment goes up and fewer and fewer Super Rich horde the wealth while greater and greater numbers are disenfranchised and marginalized.

    Thank you Atheism. We owe it all to YOU.
     
  8. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    I've only read the first 2 pages and this last one, but did anyone bring up Stephen Hawking? That guy should run for president, too bad the fact that he's an atheist would prevent him from winning.
     
  9. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    Did he? the extract you posted said the bomb he planted wasn't designed to kill anyone?

    your own quote:
    "On April 8, 1929, Singh and Dutt threw bombs onto the corridors of the assembly and shouted "Inquilab Zindabad!" ("Long Live the Revolution!"). This was followed by a shower of leaflets stating that it takes a loud voice to make the deaf hear. The bomb neither killed nor injured anyone; Singh and Dutt claimed that this was deliberate on their part, a claim substantiated both by British forensics investigators who found that the bomb was not powerful enough to cause injury, and by the fact that the bomb was thrown away from people. Singh and Dutt gave themselves up for arrest after the bomb. He and Dutt were sentenced to ' Transportation for Life' for the bombing on June 12, 1929 "

    Ghandi said this of him:

    Gandhi on Singh

    http://www.kamat.com/mmgandhi/onbhagatsingh.htm
    .
    " Mahatma Gandhi on the Martyrdom of Bhagat Singh

    Freedom fighter Sardar Bhagat Singh was hanged by the British on accusations of anti-government activities on March 23, 1931. Here, Gandhi pays tribute to the patriotism of the young martyr while disagreeing with his revolutionary methods. Excerpted from Gandhi's article in Young India.

    Bhagat Singh and his two associates have been hanged. The Congress made many attempts to save their lives and the Government entertained many hopes of it, but all has been in a vain.

    Bhagat Singh did not wish to live. He refused to apologize, or even file an appeal. Bhagat Singh was not a devotee of non-violence, but he did not subscribe to the religion of violence. He took to violence due to helplessness and to defend his homeland. In his last letter, Bhagat Singh wrote --" I have been arrested while waging a war. For me there can be no gallows. Put me into the mouth of a cannon and blow me off." These heroes had conquered the fear of death. Let us bow to them a thousand times for their heroism."


    Meanwhile battle, bombings, death, this is the way freedom has always been achieved everywhere on the planet since the beginning of time.

    Ghandi did something new or did he? The debate suggests he did not do it all alone.

    What do you think of what happened in India in 1947 when over 1 million Indians killed each other in religious conflict?

    What was singh's death toll ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2006
  10. wsionynw Master Queef Valued Senior Member

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    True, and the fact that he's British would also prevent him from running. Unless you mean running for the job of British PM?
     
  11. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    A highly dubious list.

    The Protestant Rebellion? What has that got to do with atheism?

    The slave trade - can you prove that all (or most) slave-traders were atheist? They were very religious times - I suspect that many considered themselves to be religious men, but saw the source of their income as less than human.

    Factory-owners and exploiters of the proletariat? Devout church-goers every one.

    Global warming... the growth of unemployment and the rise of the super-rich... disenfranchisement and marginalisation... how do these relate to a lack of belief in God?
     
  12. Leo Volont Registered Senior Member

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    1,509
    Protestantism is the assertion of Paulist Amoralism over Catholic Moralism. Sure, Protestants SAY that they still believe in God, but the EFFECTS of their doctrines center more on Salvation and Sin than on any submission or emulation of God or the willful pursuit of Righteousness. Indeed, Protestants discourage Willful Righteousness as it implies the rejection of Grace which must be passively received.

    But the largest proof that Protestantism is essentially Atheistic is that Atheism has so universally sprung out of Protestant Culture.

    Indeed, look at the Demographic Political Map -- Secular Atheism and Protestantism occuppy the SAME countries, no?
     
  13. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    The thread question did not ask how atheist viewpoint brought about change, merely who changed what and were they atheist.. that's how I took it anyway.

    Theist or athiest could equally be responsible for changes that are in apparrant opposition to God. But be interesting to trace the changes back to see who was at the route of change where freedoms are affected.
     
  14. Oniw17 ascetic, sage, diogenes, bum? Valued Senior Member

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    No. I mean the president of the world. That guy's as close to a god as they get.
     
  15. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    TheoryOFRelativity guaged my topic well. I had meant specific people, although overall groups with an overwhelming atheist/theist stance would certainly count, too.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    This was the chief reason why Gandhi opposed him and others like him.
     
  17. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    and yet he paid tribute to him after his death
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Sure he did. After all he gave up his life for his country. Soldiers who die for their country are always honored.

    But if he had not died, Gandhi would still have opposed him. He continued to oppose the militant factions in India who wanted to use violence right up until his death and was in fact assassinated by a member of one of the groups who disagreed with him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2006
  19. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    so you deny B Singhs contribution to India's independance?

    Gandhi's oppostion is not evidence of Singhs lack of contribution is it?

    Meanwhile Ghandi was influenced by the work of an atheist, thus independance whether it by Singh or Ghandi had roots which lead to an atheist.

    Singh and Thoreau.

    "It was in London that he read Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience", which inspired his principle of non-violence. "
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/50664.stm
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2006
  20. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, you have, a great many times. It has been fundamental to your propagandized arguments.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Bah *waves arm*
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I oppose the means he sought to apply. It merely demonstarted to the British that their ideas about Indians as culturally inferior barbarians were justified.

    Gandhi forced the British to acknowledge that he stood on the higher moral ground. In the course of his satyagrahas, even when physically knocked down by lathi charges Gandhi and his supporters refused to hit back. They stood firm until they were too badly injured to stand and then they were replaced by others who also refused to hit back. The British who considered themselves as better men could not justify their behaviour under such circumstances. Gandhi's nonviolent civil disobedience was what broke the back of British imperialism in India. It was the first instance of success after a 200 year history of occupation interspersed by unsuccessful militant acts of defiance.

    If the methods adopted by Bhagat Singh had been right, Palestine would be a free nation.

    Do you mean to say that if he had not read Thoreau he would be a different man?

    Gandhi was also influenced by Islam, Hinduism as well as by Buddhism.
    You might want to read his autobiography "My Experiments With Truth" to get a better picture of what drove him. He was above all, a devout theist.
    His favorite hymn:

    http://www.iit.edu/~patevis3/Hymn.html
     
  23. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    So you do acknowledge that B Singh was an athesit who affected a significant change in India

    then we are in agreement.

    Another atheist who affected a change in India's history was Thoreau all be it indirectly via Ghandi

    Would Ghandi have been effective without this atheists influence? His non violent stance was influenced by Thoreau that is a pretty BIG influence.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2006

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