Atheist expects death to be oblivion.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    And suicide?

    Is wanting to die, think about it, some sort of disease?
     
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  3. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    While it might be true for most things, it doesn't hold for ourselves. We can't assign any value to our own non-existent state. It is a meaningless concept. To be able to assign value we must be able to experience it. If we can't experience it, if we don't even exist to be able to apply value, then the notion of value of that state is meaningless.
    All we can do is apply value to what we can experience... I.e. our state of living. Anything outside of that holds no meaning. If it is meaningless, why have a problem with it? Much like asking what happened before time began.

    As someone once said to me: "If I don't know that I don't know something, how can I have a problem with not knowing it?" Non-existence is akin to the absolute bliss of absolute ignorance.... if only the non-existent could experience them.
     
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  5. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    You have never encountered the word "suicide" being paired with "mental health"???
     
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  7. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Hence the absurdity of coupling "existence" and "non existence" on equal or even comparable value.
    If one says non existence does not impair their value (sans douchey bravado), it is just another way of saying their existence has no value (which makes one a candidate for receiving counseling).
     
  8. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    To be or to not to be??
     
  9. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    .... which of course is a question representative of unhealthy problem solving skills.
     
  10. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Well maybe; and what if the problem could not be solved?

    Can you predict the future? Is there a future without death?
     
  11. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Then it says more about one's limitations and/or frustrations, and less about the inherent value of ceasing to exist.

    As they say, "hope dies last".
     
  12. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Can you put those in a moral perspective?
     
  13. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently death bothers the theist more than the atheist. No wonder you need religion.
     
  14. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Being concerned about death is the cornerstone of sanity.
     
  15. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    At this stage in the discussion, moral perogatives are neither here nor there. One may be contemplating suicide because they ran out of strawberry icecream. Determining strawberry icecream shortages to be an in/valid pretext for euthanasia has no bearing on an individual's assessment that the association of strawberry icecream is an integral element of valid existence. At least in their mind, life with strawberry icecream trumps nonexistence.
     
  16. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Then don't couple them. I don't think Gmilam did, and I certainly haven't. But you seem intent on doing so.
    No, it really isn't.
    It is acknowledging that value only has meaning while one is alive. While one can experience. While one is capable of actually assigning value. Without that capability, without the ability to experience, without existence, "value" has no meaning.
    It is fallacious to compare a period when "value" has meaning to one where the word has no meaning. To do so is no more coherent than asking "what happens an hour after time ends?"
    Most assign a value to their own existence. Why then be concerned about a state where such is meaningless.

    The only thing to fear, IMO, the only thing that is a problem, is the awareness of deteriorating. That frightens me. That's a problem for me. Precisely because I can experience that decline. Whether it is the slow process of becoming more fragile, more frail, of the body not being able to keep up with the mind, or the gradual confusion brought about by mental deterioration, or even the far more painful decline of illness or injury. Those I fear. Not the state of death itself. That will only come once I am gone and can no longer experience.

    But hey, that's all false / douchery bravado, right.

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  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Or, more accurately, those who worry incessantly about death are driven to the platitudes of religion to ease their fears.
     
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  18. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Cop-out.

    Are you saying you have no feelings?
     
  19. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    None of that twaddle changes the fact that you distorted Spidergoat's post:
    Just as your reply "incorrect + ensuing twaddle" was a distortion of what I wrote.
    What I have not fathomed, to date, is your obsession with the opinions of advertising executives. WTF should we care what they disagree with?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    What does advertizing have to do with the afterlife? I have not seen a lot of advertizing in my time for afterlife perks.
    In fact, what does anything you said there have to do with afterlife?
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    Notice that there is no warranty on the afterlife. Buyer beware.
     
  22. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    I may be insane. How would I know?

    Don't get me wrong, I am in no hurry to die... But I don't fear death itself.

    Dying, on the other hand, could be quite painful. Depends on the situation. But death, not so much. It's not possible to experience non-existence.
     
  23. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

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    Kind of like saying you have no problem with swimming, only getting wet.
     

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