Atheist expects death to be oblivion.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Oddly enough, it was written by a theologian and is adopted by AA
    He wasn't a charlatan; he was a believer. Some of them are very nice, sincere, well-intentioned people.
    I can respect them - I just can't respect their mythology.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    29,940
    btw, if anyone cares: There are religious traditions that provide for afterlives of various kinds - death as a transition to a spiritual realm of sorts in contiguous existence with our physical one, sometimes even including the possibility of "reincarnation" or back transition - without involving a deity. Not all atheists regard death as oblivion.
     
    DaveC426913 likes this.
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,282
    When you ascribe the supernatural qualities of deity to the universe, you essentially make the universe your God. It’s called pantheism, and adherence to such notions qualifies as theism.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,764
    NO

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,039
    Yes, there are several countries which allow euthanasia for the sake of mental health.
    https://www.crikey.com.au/2016/06/17/which-countries-have-legalised-euthanasia-crikey/
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,764
    Mis quote

    Lord let me tolerate the fools

    Patience with idiots

    And the strength to bury the bodies of those I kill

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. Capracus Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,282
    Was the suicide of Jesus an example of mental instability?
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,764
    Death by misadventure

    He thought it was a adventure to spread the word

    He missed

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  12. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Of course. So is all martyrdom.
    However, the biblical religions value sacrifice, especially if it includes copious amounts of suffering, whether it's dedicated to their god or to their national aspirations. Thus, saints and soldiers are applauded.
    They do not value - indeed, strongly and sternly disapprove of - individual happiness. Thus, any attempt to evade the suffering meted out by their god is a sin.
    In theory.
    Actually, their spiritual leaders enjoy quite a high standard of material comfort.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,039
    Atheists admire and reward self-sacrifice in the form of heroic beneficial behavior in the face of overwhelming odds, such as saving a life.
    Atheists do not admire self-sacrifice in the form of suicide in the act of killing other people in the name of God.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,413
    I'd say that's a pretty universal value, not a religious one.
     
  15. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    The point was that atheists value individual happiness and quality of life. They do not value suffering nor punish attempt to shorten its duration.
    Would you really?
     
    Write4U likes this.
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,413
    Some do, some don't. You don't have to be religious to value someone's sacrifice (say, a firefighter who went back into a burning building to save a child.) And that sacrifice becomes more significant if, for example, the firefighter was crippled as a result. Even atheists might place a higher value on someone doing that vs. someone going into a building that is merely smoky to rescue a child, and returning unharmed.

    Does that mean that they "value suffering?" No. Does that mean they value the sacrifice that that firefighter made, one that resulted in a lot of suffering for him? Yes.

    To look at it at a societal level, all astronauts who fly on missions do dangerous work. The ones that die horribly in the process (surely the highest level of suffering and sacrifice) have high schools named after them - even though all astronauts face similar levels of risk.
    Yep.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    29,940
    Nobody referred to is doing that.
    And if everything is God nothing is.
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,039
    Yes, but not if such self-sacrificial heroism is used for wanton killing of innocents in the name of some obscure cause. I think that is the definition of martyrdom, no?

    Dying for a cause is noble. Dying while killing innocent people for a cause, is just crazy, IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    29,940
    Easily finessed - none of the people killed are innocent.
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,039
    Was 911 a noble act of self-sacrifice, by the "terrorists"? Some radical Islamists thought so.

    Were all people killed, including the firemen "guilty" of some offense?
     
  21. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    However, that's not the sacrifice to which I was referring. I did specify:
    Besides, a fireman doesn't deliberately give up his life in exchange for the child's: his intention is to save the child and survive. Going back to burn along with the kid would be just as stupid as burning for your belief, which Christian prelates greatly admire - even if they had to light the fire themselves.

    If dying for glory - or suffering needlessly - is [almost] universally valued, then we're a sicker bunch of puppies than even than I realized.
     
  22. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Of course they were! We are born in sin and keep on sinning. Jesus made a deal - not that he had much choice - with an entity far less reliable than the devil is reputed to be - at least in popular fiction.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,413
    Google John R. Fox. When he and his soldiers were surrounded by the Germans in WWII, he called in artillery fire on his own position, thus killing himself, his troops and a bunch of Germans.

    We gave him a medal - for killing himself and his troops. Because we thought that sacrifice was noble.
    We also gave Paul Tibbets a medal. He killed upwards of 200,000 innocent people for his cause. If he had sacrificed himself in the process (which was a very real possibility) he would have been an even bigger hero.
     

Share This Page