Atheist expects oblivion; Envies believers

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Dinosaur, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    In 5-12 years, I expect total oblivion.

    My brain processes my memories & thoughts. When it is no longer functional, those memories & thoughts will be non-existent.

    To me the above means that nothing I consider to be me will exist.​

    I envy those who expect some continued existence, but wonder what basis there is for that belief.
     
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  3. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Ignorance is bliss? I don't envy them at all. From a purely physical perspective, nothing you do in life can be completely erased. The locus of cause and effect that was you reverberates through time like a slowly fading bell...
     
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  5. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Spend this life waiting for the next and it doesn't happen. Yeah, that's religion in a nutshell. Or nut case.
     
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  7. Loki Registered Member

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    This sounds more like a definition of aging when you're there to experience the "locus of cause and effect"; but when the lights go out, what reverberates? You're simply back to the common source called "from nothing" which inevitably goes back into nothing.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Eternal life is the carrot offered by belief. It's supposed to be an enviable reward.

    It would be kind of dumb to build a religion around "commit no sin, and, when ye life comes to an end, ye shall get coupons!"
     
  9. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    What do you consider to be you, and why do you consider it to be you??

    Jan.
     
  10. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    And impossible to disprove...
     
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  11. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    Look up apartment number - someone there said they had a phone call from the other side

    Didn't say if from up or downstairs - just the other side

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  12. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    From Jan Post 6
    I consider my body other than my brain to be an accessory required to maintain my brain, whose functions are essential to what I consider to be me.

    Due to some processes (called thoughts & memories) in my brain, I have a belief that I am a human being similar in many characteristics to other human males. Those processes also create a belief that I am unique, having many differences between myself & any other human.

    Among those processes are memories of my activities since I was circa 5 years old.

    My fingerprints, retinal patterns, DNA, & other physical characteristics are different from those of other males. Those differences are superficial to what I consider to be me. I consider my memories & conscious thought processes to be the characteristics that are the essence of myself.

    As long as my memory & other brain functions are not seriously impaired, I consider myself to exist even if complex technology is required to keep me alive. If major brain processes no longer function or if I am in a permanent coma, I should be considered to be dead. If a person I cared for were in that condition, I would suggest to medical personal that further life support technology be discontinued.
     
  13. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Couldn't be from Hell, I know they don't have internet down there.
     
  14. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    No internet!!!!!!

    That would be hell

    Then again I have heard heaven is running Vista and no Google

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  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    double posted
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  16. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    That's all well and good.
    Define ''I''?
    Does your ''I'' belong to you, also?
    If so, what is the ''you''?
    Does the ''you'' belong to ''you'' also?
    Can you see just by the language you use, how absurd your position, could be?

    jan.
     
  17. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    Can somebody tell me why I would be envious of those who sit at God's feet and sing hosannas for all eternity? Sounds like Hell to me.
     
  18. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    No.
    Why would you be?

    jan.
     
  19. Michael 345 Looking for Bali in Nov Valued Senior Member

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    As I might have mentioned here I think god is Currently testing out Alzheimer's

    Ever day in heaven will be a new one with all new friends

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  20. Dinosaur Rational Skeptic Valued Senior Member

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    In a previous Post I remarked
    In Post 13 Jan referred to the above & remarked
    Jan seems to be unaware of the requirements for undefined primitive words.

    In both logic & human conversation, some words & phrases must be undefined primitives. The alternative is a collection of essentially meaningless circular definitions. Note the following
    There can be little or no understanding between two people who have different concepts for those primitives.

    I suspect that "I" and "you" are such primitive words, making my remarks both reasonable & understandable rather than absurd.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I engaged in a discussion with Jan about a thousand posts long. This was his M.O. when he'd painted his way into a corner. He would resort to equivocation. Either he would insist that common words had no useful definition, or he would do the exact opposite, and repeat his own personal definition over and over. He must have used his own preferred definition at least two hundred times - and insisted that, simply by stating it, it was unassailable. What he was really doing was trying to sow mystery and fogginess to the whole subject, since shining a bright, clarifying light on it was not in his interests.
     
  22. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    I expect the cognitively discriminated differences of my life sequence to co-exist the same as ever. With my last, coherent brain-state that has a correlation to consciousness just being part of a "death bookend" defining one border which my supposed overall identity is restricted "behind". Complemented oppositely by the figurative bookend of whatever initial, vague awareness emerged during my fetal stage development.

    Between those two, the individual or discriminated differences (of my life sequence) internally experience isolation from each other as milliseconds-long intervals of consciousness (thus the appearances-based folk belief that "only this moment is real"). But which nevertheless feel connected to each other via memory and anticipation / prediction (and indeed are so conjoined when minus the distinctions / separations introduced by cognition's manner of representation).

    Arguably, there's an inferred existence beyond those two privately observable bookends of personal experience either ceasing or beginning. Extending all the way to total cessation of brain and body functioning in the death orientation, and all the way back to being a zygote with respect to the origin orientation. Also, there will be later amnesia with regard to the first, tentative consciousness as a fetus -- making it rather fuzzy as to whether that really counts as a non-corrupted form of manifested evidence, since it has one foot in "inferred evidence" territory (intellectual / rational certification). At the opposite pole, there's no "after period" for remembering the final dying experiences.

    ~
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    Why envy delusion? Why envy people living on lies?
    They may expect it but they do not know it will happen any more than you do.
    Delusion causes much more harm than good.
    Would you rather your brain processes be such to enable you to believe stupid ignorant nonsense?

    <>
     

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