Atheist Fundamentalism and the Limits of Science

Why don't you ask Sam and LG?

Oh okay, I'll give my opinion without being asked.

In Islam, we believe that more than a 100,000 Prophets have been born, that all religions have the same root. So no I am not a "strong" atheist to Thor and Ra, I just think the religion of Thor and Ra has roots lost in history. And we're not allowed to discriminate between prophets {insert verse from Quran}

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I'll let LG speak for himself.

 

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After reading the majority of your twenty eight thousand posts I think it's quite safe to state that I "know" you.

That's... I'm... wait.. who mentioned prophets?

Wait.. Atheism is with regards to gods, not prophets. I didn't say anthing about you being a "strong aprophet". It seems you believe that Thor and Ra are prophets which are not gods, which means you're quite sure Thor and Ra aren't gods... right?

 

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Well, how do we know that? It seems like an assumption on your part. Perhaps they simply haven't come across anything that compels them to believe in Thor or Ra, as opposed to what they've found which enables them to hold a belief in the Abrahamic god. I would call that a case of weak atheism on their part, if that's the case.

Strong atheism as a result of their faith however is a different issue, and that I'd be willing to agree with (there is no god but Allah, etc.). But considering how so many people choose to (perhaps wrongly) pick and choose at doctrine and keep what parts they like, just because someone is a self-proclaimed Muslim, Christian or Jew doesn't necessarily imply strong atheism on their part in regards to other gods.

 

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Based largely upon my knowledge of many many many discussions with the aforementioned people. Certain things are picked up in 28 thousand posts...

However, I will allow the possibility of weak atheism, (although apparently neither of them believe such thing exists)... So to those two...

Are you weak atheist or strong atheist with concerns to Ra and Thor?

 

And who said Thor and Ra were Prophets?

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Muslims believe (at least the ones who know enough of the religion do) that all people are born Muslim ie submit to the laws of God. We call it Fitra or the natural state, all people are born in the ways of Allah (ie having a natural tendency to do the right thing).

According to the religion itself, all "ideas" about God come about after growing up and being influenced by the world. So Thor and Ra are representations of God. It is why current Muslims are so anti-representation and idolatory (even to the extent of teddy bears), they believe it is the only way to avoid the faith being corrupted.

 

Oh I don't give theists enough credit.. When asked about other gods just pretend they're your god in disguise.

I love it..

allah is the spaghetti monster. It's ingenious.

P.S As for "being born muslim".. Lol then why do the majority have no understanding or belief in muslim gods or ways?

 

:roflmao:

 

Haven't you heard the shahadah?

 

What is a Muslim God or way?

The Muslim God has no identity, no name, no gender or qualities (the 99 names that represent qualiies represent the full spectrum of human behaviour).
The Muslim way is pray, avoid discrimination between all prophets, known and unknown, and give charity.

 

Aprophet - hmmmm interesting

 

The long winded way of saying "non existant". If it has none of that which you say it has none of then it is simply nothing. What a waste of time.

However, do you believe in the spaghetti monster or thor or ra - all of which do have genders, identities, names and qualities and thus cannot be that which you believe in?

 

Much like the substance of the universe, I think.

Sure I believe in them, as manifestations of God of people of the time. Even atheists need something to justify their belief (or lack thereof) and can only come up with Gods.

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Then why this:

Pray to who? The Muslim God is not in anyway affected by your prayers. Also, if the "Muslim" God has no qualities then it does not exist because existence is a quality. Which brings us back to: Why Pray?

 

Basically in my mind it all comes back to the big hope of getting to live after you die. I am 100% positive that if this God that has no qualities at all did not promise humans an afterlife the majority of people simply would not pray to it.

 

For the same reason you give charity. It is a spiritual exercise, you do it for your self improvement, to be a better human.

If you read much of the Prophets prayers, you'll realise none of them are prayers that ask for anything, but are supplications that give confidence, sort of like affirmations that therapists provide in therapy. Its a daily form of therapy if you will.

 

Sure, one would have to go back in history to search the origins of the gods to answer that. The simplest solution is that all things go from simple to complex. It is the nature of the human being to embellish and adorn.

 

While that's wonderful, I don't remember asking if you believe in the universe. Please try again.

Look, I'm perhaps not as nice as some people here so I will ask you to cut out the bullshit and get to it.. Do you believe in the spaghetti monster? Do you believe in Thor? Do you believe in Ra? If not, do you believe that they do not exist or do you simply lack belief in them?

C'mon, courage doesn't cost.


P.S The universe has qualities.

 

I already told you, they are manifestations of belief in God by the people who believe in them.

I don't believe God has to fit a preset mould.

If you can only define your atheism by creating another manifestation of God and this makes you happy, so be it.:shrug:

Yeah, to us.