Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by arauca, Nov 2, 2013.
Perhaps the world will be less of a number of death and war
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I did not read all of the Posts to this Thread & am addressing Posts 2 & 3
From Mazulu Post# 2
You do not know many (if any) atheists. They have much better ethics than many (most?) religious folks.
Atheists are not in favor of killing anyone. They do not want to burn religious or other types of books. It was religious folks who believed in burning books they considered blasphemous.
I and other atheists I know do not want to close churches & outlaw religion. We are only against religion interests getting control of the political system.
It was religious folks who ran the Spanish &other inquisitions.
It was religious folks who ran the Salem witch trials & executions.
All the wars fought between nations with religious beliefs had citizens who believed god was on their side. At least those religious folks prayed to their god for victory.
BTW: One of the basic concepts of government is that it is the only entity legally allowed to use the force of arms to back up its beliefs (Id est: Its laws). One of the worst situations is having religious interests in control of that force.
Some of the most repressive regimes were during the era when Kings were alleged to have Devine rights backing their leadership.
Another Poster who does not know any atheists. From Arauca Post #3
Atheists do not believe in a supreme being because they have respect for their fellow men. They do not consider themselves or other men as a supreme beings. Atheists have better ethics than most religious folks.
The USSR & the Chinese communists were against religion because they did not want to recognize any authority higher than their hierarchy.
You mean they did not recognize God , therefore they eliminated those who followed God.
Tell me some more about the holly atheists
You mean the Soviet Union killed people because they believed in God?
But you are not reading what has already been said.
In the Middle East religious people have been killing each other for 2000 years, not because they believed in God, but because they believed in the *wrong* God.
And this may be an informative tidbit,
Yes the Soviet government killed and tortured believers in God they have been sent to Siberia and worked them to skin and bones and many died. If you were a believer and you had a reunion of believers they come and demolished your house,
My answer was to the gentle open minded atheism. What moslem do , or what the Roman Catholic empire did I don't dispute , they were barbarian and criminals . But no one should and no government should stop people to believe in what they want.
I agree with your last sentenc, but the Soviet government saw the Church as a threat to their absolute power. You can't kill a church, but you can kill church leaders.
This is different than the Nazis, who actually killed Jews for *being* Jews.
But the main point is that an atheist does not kill *for god*. They may have other motives, but never because God commanded it. Such as written in the Quran, "kill the infidel" (unbeliever).
I don't believe God will tell a human to kill other human , even in the Bible in some situation is mentioned . If God want to remove someone he have the natural means but tu order other human I don't believe he would use . Look German had on their belt buckle saying god with us. I don' t believe God said that that is man to encourage other man take a political position and use the name of God for their cause
Believe whatever you want to believe but please try and understand belief does not dictate or reflect reality.
How many humans died in the world wars what was their sin such that god could not save them.
If he did save any folk why was that?
Give me facts and not what you want to believe.
Why was this old thread revived? It was one of Sciforums' stupid-threads from the beginning. It still is.
From when, 2013? Necromancy.
I agree that some atheists probably do have "better ethics" (how would one go about measuring that?) than some "religious folks". The best atheists probably are better than the worst religious people. But the reverse is obviously going to be true too, the most saintly religious people are going to be better than the worst atheists.
Some atheists certainly are. In Mongolia, communist atheists destroyed all the Buddhist monasteries in the 1920's and tens of thousands of monks were dispatched to mass graves, with bullets in the backs of their heads. It was repeated in Cambodia in the 1970's.
In Tibet, Chinese atheists destroyed just about every Buddhist monastery in the country in the 1960's. Some of these were essentially universities , preserving an intellectual tradition dating back to medieval India. When their libraries burned, the only surviving copies of a vast number of irreplaceable manuscripts were lost. Basically, the entire intellectual tradition of late Indian Buddhism was gutted and almost wiped out. It's one of the worst cultural crimes in all of history.
Christian destruction of unwelcome literature in medieval and early modern Europe was less complete than was the atheist destruction of the late Indian traditions of Vajrayana Buddhism.
Good for you. I wish that all atheists felt the same way.
It might surprise you, but here in the United States most religious people feel the same way. Many of the earliest settlers in the Americas were fleeing from the 17th century European wars of religion, in which ruling monarchs decided on a single state religion (Catholicism or a Protestant denomination such as Lutheranism) of their people and then persecuted the crap out of "non-conformists" who persisted in following other denominations. (The Catholics were dominated by the Hapsburgs, who controlled imperial Spain and wanted to reform the 'Holy Roman Empire' (Germany) into a single centralized state. The Protestants attracted the princes who wanted to retain their independence and not be part of that Hapsburg hegemony.)
The fact that America was originally settled by religious minorities trying to escape their oppressive European states with their state-churches is what motivated the Founders' arguments for what Jefferson called a "Wall of Separation" between church and state.
And it was atheists who ran Stalin's gulags and show trials. China's red guards were atheists.
I think that you will find that historically with the inquisition, it was the church and the state working together. That's why despite the same Catholic church existing throughout Europe, the intensity of its persecution of heretics varied dramatically from place to place. Religion and political allegiance were often closely linked, so heresy typically had political overtones and was associated with opposition to the rulers and the state.
If people are going to be expected to die for a cause, then that cause needs to be justified in terms of the people's highest values and principles.
I applaud your reply
Same as it always has: rat race for survival. It's not like religion is the only--or even the dominant--reason for people to fight each other. Resources and land is, has, and probably will be the biggest reason for conflict. Ideology is rarely more than window-dressing, except in nations where extremists have control.
Atheists still know moral and ethics. So a world full of atheists doesn't automatically mean a less moral or ethic world.
But there is a chance that it means a world that is more focused on human needs than godly deeds.
The way I see atheists population is composed among more educated people . So they are more restraint . usually atheist population is a minority in a country.. But you remove the restriction that religion impose , then we would see a real disaster in a society.
Maybe remove poverty in the world and people will not need a God so much.
How do you remove poverty. Are you going to put everybody on welfare , are you willing to support them ?
Whoa there conservative cowboy! I'd ask what Jesus would do to fat cat corporations.
So you are selective in you acceptance of Biblical Scriptual Truth? Good for you!
You do realize that infidelity will get you sent to hell.
Everybody? Talking about exaggerated claims
And you will give them God to support them in their time of need?. That'll do a lot of good!!!!?.
THE BASSIS for my belief is Jesus , Jesus at no time mentioned to kill nor even to use a sword to defend . . So since Jesus was the incarnation of God , that confirms me God would not command man to kill an other man, The bible have human history and man have used God to justify his action . we have our current example Allah Akbar. then BOOOM and go to the paradise and get 7 virgens . The Imams create them selve a strong incentive to get young stupids kids . .probable in the antiquity other religions used similar incentive .
Did not jesus become a warrior against his god in the end .
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