Atheists please answer this

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Joe K., Aug 11, 2010.

  1. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,112
    phlogistician,

    I've experienced one in the UK.
    Yes you heard right, in the UK.
    At first I thought it was some heavy vehicle coming down the road, as I felt
    the room vibrate slightely. Then the vibration became more intense, like living near train lines. Then it became more intense, lasting a little longer than it should if it were vehicles. Then the whole house started to shake at which time I was quite scared and concerned for my family. Then it died out.
    Made me realise how fickle life is, and how we really have no control over it.

    You mean I have cred? WOW!

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    No one is denying plate tectonics, and I'm not saying God is directly responsible for each and ever earthquake.
    But you DO NOT know if God or gods is/are responsible, that's my point.

    jan.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    LOL!!

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    You're funny.

    jan.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    Neverfly,

    So what you're implying is that at one time God was everywhere to be found (in form) but when the microscope came about, he became a little more invisible. Then as modern science really came into being he became absolutely invisible.?

    But scriptures has always maintained that God is invisible to mankind, due to
    mankinds ignorance. And reveals himself to those who are his devotees.

    What do you say to that?

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    How do you know that God is not the original cause?

    God has never been described as a physical being, so you're talking nonsense.
    You are basing all of this on atheism. Totally irrational and unreasonable.

    jan.
     
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  7. cruiser Registered Member

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    16
    Jan
    no. im blessed with omniscience
    i thank you for the vast amount of light you just shed on the subject
    no. id say it was the debris falling on his head that killed him as opposed to a gust of wind
    intelligence being what you know. limited as in there is a limited amount of knowledge that we posess.
    as in i have limited knowledge of grammar and correct spelling. it doesnt so much imply that i cant learn more, i just havent
    i use sunsilk. its good for split ends
    assuming what? u told me to go and learn.....
    sir i am no computer.
    i have not been programmed.
    i have been bought up to believe in a god.
    i would say that in this case i overwrote the programming
    why he was the son of dumbledore!!!!!
    the omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient god!!! (anyone else enjoying the bearded old magical man symbolism?)
    im sorry. my position is i read this book. screwed around with the story to make it a little more fitting to my needs and then proclaimed it as my religion. understand?
    and your view that there is a god is just so gosh darn revolutionary....
    i can tell you now i have never been conditioned, i have never really had the chance to speak with an educated athiest.unfortunately my cliched thinking is my own

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    i am sorry to dissapoint you
    you are arguing nonetheless.

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    a replica you say????
    of what?
    an amonite?
    that roamed the seas many millions of years ago?
    well yes i suppose it is possible that somone replicated an amonite
    1. that makes no sense
    2. that still makes no sense
    3. if only you had met my cat....... you would shut your mouth right now
    4. did you just imply that being real or not is defined by wether or not you act like your ment to???
    5. yup you did...... you really should have stopped arguing where you said you were going to.
    sure did. whats your point.
    1. if i never put fuel in my car how can it get low
    2. that is what petrol stations are for. im not sure what cars have to do with photosynthesis
    my definition was of reality.... not of how to determine wether a fossil is fake or not. the fossil is part of reality. it is not reality itself, even if the fossil is genuine and true.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
  8. cruiser Registered Member

    Messages:
    16

    lol
    sorry. didnt realise believing in god became a rational way of thinking.
     
  9. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    I disagree.

    Human Intelligence is limited by our evolution that has been based on perceptions in survival and an environment in which survivalist traits are favored.
    This means that we can never observe reality directly.
    We can only build Models of reality and try to make them as accurate as possible with testing and observation. Which is the purpose of the scientific method.
    It removes us from our pareidolia infested mental state as a check and balance.

    Irrelevant.

    The issue I took was that you made the claim: "Talking shit again."
    The implication was seemingly to present the illusion that this person is one with whom you have history of talking shit during disagreement- as if to discredit their arguments.
    Since the poster is shiny and new- how could that be the case?

    I cannot claim that I know one way or the other if your motive was to paint that illusion or if it was a simple mistake in wording. But then, that's why the issue is raised, no?

    No.

    The bible and various other sources of scripture, the tenets as described by dogma and the average believers claims present the image of God as:
    The Creator
    Omnipotent
    All knowing
    Present in everything.

    However, when examination is performed, that studied always lacks any supernatural or divine source. All action is defined and falsifiable.
    Evolution demonstrates not only the lack of a God, but that to have a creator would require a cosmic conspiracy designed to hide the very existence of the creator.

    Because of this, believers do what YOU are doing now, as I outlined above.
    They bump him to a new location and then ask, "How do you know he;s not over here, then?"

    I could bump an invisible Unicorn around all day, too. I assure you, you will never find my invisible pink unicorn.

    Ohhh cool! You've seen him!?
    Tell me you took pictures!

    I graciously thank you for demonstrating my example flawlessly. I couldn't have come up with an analogy that did it as well as you just had.

    How do you know my invisible pink unicorn did not tell me so?

    Ok. Lack of belief in absurdities, fairy tales, dragons and grand designers is irrational and unreasonable.

    That's good enough for me.

    Now, I'm confused... I thought Cruiser was referring to herself... Himself?
    Itself.

    I'm aware Jan is a male name...

    Umm


    Me- I'm a transexual lesbian trapped in a gay mans body.

    Nahh... I'm just some dude.
     
  10. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    cruiser,

    No you're not.

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    Sarcasm is innapropriate.

    A wise-guy huh!
    That's already been established, much like the movement of tectonic plates.

    Knowing stuff doesn't make you intelligent.
    How you act and operate, ones ability to understand, and so on, is what determines levels of intelligence.

    Not conditioner, silly!!!

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    CON-DITION-ING.

    So you do not regard your brain as a type of computer?
    I'm afraid we've all been programmed, and conditioned.

    Were you?
    What went wrong?

    Laypersons tinkering with sophisticated software, not good.

    Ok, so now I understand your position, why would/should I assume you
    are mad?

    Stop with the lame sarcasm already, duh!

    Then you are unique in western history.

    Fair enough.

    Not regarding it's status of being real or not.

    Erm no, the amonite fossil.
    http://www.soil-net.com/album/Soils_Rocks/slides/Fossil Amonite.html

    You think some artist could do a replication of this, convincing enough to fool the human eye?

    You're just being a silly-billy now, aren't you.

    Erm, well, I didn't imply that reality is defined as such, but in terms of
    understanding your cat to be real it does help. Wouldn't you agree?

    Things can appear to work all by themselves, or without some kind of aid, but it doesn't necessarily mean they actually do.

    You implied your friend had reality issues, as in making adjustments, because she couldn't accept the reality you showed her.
    Why do you regard your revelation as reality?

    jan.
     
  11. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

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    12,112
    I didn't say or even imply that.
    You really should pay attention.

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    jan.
     
  12. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    all knowing
    and you don't?
    all knowing again..
    quit drinking..
    see comment about talking shit.
    listen to your inner pink unicorn..you won't listen to no-one else..
    prove it..
    didn't you argue with me when i said that?
    what did you say again?

    i knew it..

    for the record:
    this is my attempt to use the same arguments you use to respond to my posts,in an effort to show you how idiotic your responses are..unfortunately i am not as well versed in the idiotic as some users, so it probably will not make any sense to you.
     
  13. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Nope. I disbelieve in God for the same reason I disbelieve in Lord Poop and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There's zero evidence for them.
     
  14. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,573
    that's bull crap and a strawman.

    EDIT: well i wondered if bothering would be a waste of time, but anyway; http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=97610
     
  15. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,112
    Neverfly,

    That's nonsensical.
    If anything human intelligence shapes evolution.
    Survival is a triumph of intelligence.

    And this is based on our observation of reality, unless discovery comes by accident. The method acts as a super-sense which allows us to understand phenomena we couldn't have before, IMO.
    The conclusion drawn from it is reality as far as it is understood to be, not reality period.

    No it's not.
    Read above.

    It's all water under the bridge now. (is that the correct saying?
    Me and cruiser are getting married next spring.

    shhh...she doesn't know it yet.

    Looking for supernatural, or divine source under strict scientific circumstances, is like looking for the actual thing that makes a joke funny to some folks. Or looking for the actual thing that makes someone dance beautifully. These things are in the moment. Reality is now, always.

    Evolution demonstrates no such thing.
    The creator may be hidden from our view, but his/its work is a testament.
    As we are alive, there are many living entities living within us, and on us. This is possible because we are alive. The moment we die, all activety stops for these entities. They cannot percieve us, and may or may not have some knowledge of their environment. But they will never understand us, yet we are real.

    I have a little understanding of God as defined in the scriptures (and I mean a little), and as such there is no need of reinvention. It may seem that way to you because I'm trying explain from your point of view, as a person whose understanding is zilch.

    I'm not "bumping"God around, it just seems that way to you.
    The concept of the IPU is nonsense put about by those who refuse to develop understanding of God. It is a diversion tactic.

    I did but I had my thumb over the lense.
    Soz!

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    I asked first.
    Well?

    Fair enough.

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    jan.
     
  16. Neverfly Banned Banned

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    3,576
    No, I don't. If ever I do, point it out.

    But dude, don't invent false claims, such as this, just to present the illusion that I'm equally guilty. FOR ONCE, back up your statements or don't bother making them.

    Yes, when I was asked if his interpretation of what I said was correct and I answered- That meant I'm all knowing.

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    Seriously, do you read the stuff that you try to distort first?
    Because that was a pretty major fail on your part right there.

    I don't drink.

    Bitter?
    Very well...
    http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Irrationality

    Epic fail.

    Try applying reasoned and logical arguments instead of misapplying parrot speak. You might have more luck.

    Are you saying that the theory of Evolution is nonsensical and that psychology does not support what I just claimed?
    Are you suggesting that human intelligence shaped evolution... PRIOR TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF HUMANS?
    Speaking of something being nonsensical.

    You didn't understand what I said, did you?
    Heck, you pretty much agreed with me and seem totally unaware that you did.

    You mean the part where you changed a couple words and reiterated what I said, basically? Sure, I'll read it again.



    Thanks.

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    I didn't think it would be funny the second time around, but it still was.
    Ok.
    What makes the brain laugh at absurdity or why the brain responds to our perception of beauty CAN be described, measured and studied scientifically.

    Currently, we lack the technology to study it in great detail. But the principle is sound.

    The supernatural, on the other hand, is utterly absent from ANY method of study. ANY.

    Clearly, you do not understand evolution.

    Read here:http://www.talkorigins.org/

    Learn it- THEN try making claims.

    You essentially just said something as absurd as: "Mathematics does not demonstrate that pi is an irrational number. Pi is a testament to the beauty of whole numbers."
    You just admitted that you lack understanding.
    Having spent five years In The Ministry- it's a safe bet I understand scripture better than you do.
    So how is it you claim that with your lack of understanding, you've determined that I understand Zilch?
    No. It's embarrassingly clear that you're just rationalizing your belief. Deal with it instead of making biased assumptions about my knowledge base.
    When the hand of God is not found and the believer then asks, "Well, then how do you know he isn't up HERE (Above area studied)?"
    That's Bumping.

    It's not rocket science.

    You asked me to support your delusion.
     
  17. cruiser Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    i have faith in it so i must be right
    general statements that do not answer a question arent appropriate
    i have been conditioned with conditioner. who are you to dispute that
    not in the commonly used sense of the word
    i grew up and stopped entertaining childish ideas as reality. sure i like unicorns but untill your bring me one i refuse to believe they exist
    software:written programs or procedures or rules and associated documentation pertaining to the operation of a computer system and that are stored in read/write memory.
    i refuse to believe that a person bought up being taught only that which is proven beyond all reasonable doubt, with no mention of god to them not even to tell them that there is or isnt a god,will know a god and worship a god. because i do not believe that god is something imprinted in your brain. i believe god is just an idea that you learn.
    because this is totally irrational and unfounded of me. i apologise if you believe in dumbledore and harry, but i assume you dont, as god demands you to be monotheistic
    never.
    you said replica. this implies that there first had to be somthing to replicate.
    and im not sure what you are implying but yes. i do believe a human could replicate that. during ww2 many Homo erectus fossils were destroyed. luckily some clever cookie had made casts of the skulls. replicas were then made and they would easily fool the human eye, they are very realistic
    no. i really dont find that helpful.... but i cant speak for everyone
    this is true. but you cant prove that there is extra aid. are you saying my car appears to work without oil? im kindof lost....

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    again i dont think it is reality, simply part of reality
    it is real and true. i can touch it, see it, use it to effect other things. it is just a very aged dead organism. i regard it to be as real as any of the dead lambs that are lying all around the countryside at the moment. they arent suddenly fake coz they died.

    on a more personal note.
    jan.
    i cant marry you, i wish to live in a large mansion with 3 wives and 4 husbands, i cant have you tying me down. xox
     
  18. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,576
    On a sidenote... (also known as a thread hijack...)
    Humans are programmed and conditioned. Not by a programmer, but by the developmental stages of evolution.
    Pareidolia is a favorite...
    Essentially, we all follow all of the influences that are inherent and from outside as a form of programming.
    For instance, a person jumps out from behind a corner at you and yells, "Boo!"
    Your eyes widen- Programming. It's not voluntary.
    You assume a defensive stance- Programming.
    Programmed behavior is responsible for superstition and belief in the irrational as well.

    Overcoming ones programming can often require wrapping your mind around concepts that seem foreign to you, even counter-intuitive.

    Even if he uses padded ropes?
     
  19. cruiser Registered Member

    Messages:
    16
    fair call. i meant i am not a p.c. I am not the same as this laptop i am typing into.

    padded ropes are for bitches. i use barbed wire
     
  20. Neverfly Banned Banned

    Messages:
    3,576
    You are not the P.C. - but that is because you are Much, much more complex.
    The principle of how each operates is the same.
    You are correct- Jans comment was ridiculous. I was practicing semantics.

    Oh, the hell with that. I ain't marrying your crazy ass either!
     
  21. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    It's quite simple Jan. We can model things mathematically, and use those models to predict things, and then match those predictions against other real world events, and see how they match up.

    If God needed to be involved, there would be parameters that we could not model. Errors. Variables that we found unpredictable.

    The more science we do, the fewer of those there are, and the smaller they get.

    If you hold that God _could_ be involved, you have to admit that the study of Science is making your God shrink.
     
  22. phlogistician Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,342
    How do you figure that?

    VI and I are on the same page here. I too don't believe in God, because I've had nothing leading me to that viewpoint. Not one shred of evidence has presented itself to me. People have tried selling me God, but not one of them could give me honest answers to my questions. In the end, it comes down to faith, and personal wish fulfilment, and then people see what they want to see.

    So our viewpoints are not straw men. They are derived from our personal experience, which has had ZERO interaction with a supreme being, nor have we come across anything that requires a paranormal explanation. 'Evidence' others present doesn't bear scrutiny either.

    Soon, I think they'll come up a with a cure for those that suffer from religion. I'm sure this is possible.
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    16,330
    now might be a good time to define exactly what principle you are talking about .....

    .... it might also pay to be clear about whether you are talking about tried and tested models or simply extrapolating about some wonderful theory

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