It was well under three hundred years from the first electric battery in modern times to what we have in the present, Walter. About that time was when technology really started to be rediscovered. I think it is much more of an emotional hangup that we insist that the ancients were a bit behind us, that we will only admit to them having technology on a par with that of the 19th century and that they must still have been lacking in something that they would have needed to become a "true"technological society. We don't know what "certainly" the Atlanteans were doing. They were almost certainly mining for coal. That's a very old technology, working the mines for coal, copper, or whatever. People of that age both worked strip mines and tunneled. There have been places that petroleum oil could be extracted without drilling, and tar and pitch. Some kind of chemistry was done by the Greeks before the start of our current calendar. One of my favorite things, hempseed oil, was also quite available, perhaps the most available of fuels. I would have to say that the Atlanteans most certainly were mining for coal, petroleum, and metals. Everyone who wasn't running around the woods dressed in furs was and many of them were doing it too. This doesn't put them on a par with the 20th century but it gives them a hell of a leg up. Also, theirs seemed to be a lot more durable than ours.
Mining for coal is not an old technology. Mining for coal was unknown in the 'west' prior to Marco Polo (circa 1,000 A.D.) bringing the knowledge of coal to the 'west' from China. I'm not certain when coal mining commenced in China, though it likely was contemporaneous to their uses of rockets, fireworks, etc. The discovery of "rocks that burn" revolutionized Europe, and it wasn't long before that knowledge was put to use in smelting, developing gun powder, and heating water for steam engines a few centuries later. No evidence of prior coal mining exists; i.e. all the coal mines in Europe were pristine prior to Marco Polo's day. Likewise for oil drilling. True, some oil seeps to the surface (as, for example, the La Brea Tar Pits in L.A.), and uses for it might have been known by the 'ancients', particularly for tarring seams in boats, etc. Mining for metals could well have been an undertaking of the 'ancients'. Iron meteorites were known and used in metalworking before the smelting of iron was discovered, and gold and copper had been known for millenia prior thereto, both in the 'west', in the 'east', and in the Americas at least for gold. What is still not known is whether there were 'Atlanteans' along the lines of this thread's suggestion. Certainly, there were civilized peoples who were wiped out in the mediterranean during that volcanic eruption, which is one possible origin of the 'Atlantis' story. What the 'ancients' were likely lacking was the 'critical mass' of a large population.
But if we are talking about mining on the continental shelves this would not touch the mines that were pristine in Europe when mining started there. There was coal mining before the time of Christ in Europe, too. It was probably one of the technologies that the Christians got rid of. Considering how deadly coal mining was to minors (even in 20th century America) it's not hard to see how they got the idea that it was the work of the Devil. There are also all sorts of small deposits that can be mined all over the world. They might last a small town a thousand years and still not be what we think of as a major source that can produce coal for millions of homes. Report on book on ancient Roman mines We are talking about the possibility of humans having had technology that was erased by the floods caused by the melting of the glaciers. It wouldn't be restricted to what we think we know of history. If they existed history would have to be rewritten anyway.
I didn't see anywhere in your reference that coal was being used in Europe prior to Marco Polo. I did see a reference to the use of charcoal in the smelting of copper on Cyprus (which, I believe is where the word cuprus, or copper, originates). Most coal was originally discovered in the mountains, because that is where the overlying rock was eroded, exposing the coal. Flat plains near to the sea would not have had coal mines (though there might well be coal buried below). And yes, I agree that whatever technologies might have existed would now be below the sea. But it does not appear at all likely that they were so far advanced as we are nowadays. Had they been, they would have been able to deal with a rising sea. However, if you want to discuss sci-fi scenarios, I've thought of a great sci-fi novel discussing the rise of a warm-blooded reptile that, in the span of a few million years, went from pure animal to intelligent humanoid (similar to the apes-to-man time-span), only to be wiped-out or else rocketed into space some 100 million years ago, leaving behind those lowly mammals, the T. Rexes, etc. Makes for great sci-fi possibilities, and even to tie it into UFO stuff. But, for the sake of this thread, let's stick to science.
Walter, sounds like you've been watching (maybe) the great 70's Sci-fi cult classic movie 'Laser Blast', which depicts a couple of distorted looking T-Rex type dinosuars who pilot a space ship from another planet who are chasing a renegade dinodude. When they finally catch up with him on earth, they disengrate him. After a few stupid grins, they take off again, leaving behind his beloved laser gun. The rest of the movie goes hideously downhill from there. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I would have thought that an ice-age society as successful and advanced as the Atlanteans were have said to have been would have left more tangible a mark than a second-hand story. Even if their activities were concentrated on the now-submerged continental shelves, it is hard to believe that they were geographically restricted so entirely. I would also have thought that their farming and metal-working practices might have been exported by stimulus diffusion, further increasing the likelihood that evidence would survive a global rise in sea level.
It's doubtful that any of their advanced jet aircraft or nuclear submarines would have survived for that long of period. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Well there would not be as many people able to live on our planet back then if the warmer region's were shrunken, so I would think they woulden't have the capabilities to sustain our population. Thats if im corect and before roughly 10,000 bc the warmer regions were shrunk during the Ice age, they would have less land available then us.
Iron technology made that transition in our civilization. Bronze Age metallurgy was self limiting, because veins of copper and tin never occur in close proximity. Commerce, large-scale transportation, and cooperation between cities hundreds of miles apart were required to create a Bronze Age civilization. If the Atlanteans had bronze they would of necessity have established diplomatic and commercial relations with cities in other regions, giving them a place to take refuge as the shoreline receded. Iron metallurgy, on the other hand was simply a matter of know-how. Once that genie was let out of the bottle every two-bit barbarian tribe was able to master it and start calling itself a "kingdom." If the Atlanteans had iron technology, the inland tribes would have had it too. They would have muddled through the deluge and civilization would be about ten thousand years further advanced than it is today.
I generally agree, but I think it's inaccurate to say that copper and tin never occur in close proximity. Ores of both can form around granitic intrusions. The deposits in South West England are a notable example.
In 12,000 years there will not be much evidence of us I would guess, I am sure that a house and a car will be about 2 - 5 inches thick and a nice reddish tint! probally under 2-20 feet of till if not washed into the ocean.
The continent of Atlantis is still there opposite the Pillars of Hercules (Strait of Gibraltar) only now it has been re-named South America.The part which sank was a small volcanic island which sank into a large inland sea in the centre of the continent. It was not the continent of Atlantis which sank into the sea, but the island capital of the same name, built around a volcanic island which sank into the inland sea of Lake Poopo which exists on the edge of the rectangular plain presently called the Bolivian Altiplano. This plain is in the centre of the continent exactly as Plato described it. Modern satellite mapping shows it to be of rectangular configuration, perfectly level, enclosed on all sides by mountains and these mountains contained the metals gold, silver, copper, tin and the mysterious Orichalcum" (an alloy of gold and copper which occurs only in the Andes) which Plato said were used to plate the walls of the circular city. The words "Atl" and "Antis" are themselves of native America origins meaning "water" and "copper" respectively and the plain is subject to earthquakes and floods such as Plato said sank the city in a single day and night of rainfall. Sinking into the Sea People sometimes say; "How can Atlantis be in the Andes when it is supposed to have sunk into the sea?" We must remember that Atlantis according to Plato was on a level plain "high above the level of the sea and surrounded by mountains". In fact the entire plain has been periodically submerged beneath the sea ie it became a giant inland sea at various dates going back thousands of years succeeded by dry periods.
I really think that the altiplano was only a small part of atlantis, the Island was said to be connected to the ocean by cannal's and in the time of atlantis the altiplano could not connect to the ocean in a manner to allow ships to travel into the city, I do believe that all of south america that was land would have held alot of cities and been part of the culture of atlantis. The rectangular plain is the exact size that plato said it was.
One thing to consider; if an advanced civilisation existed ten thousand years ago, it would have needed to mine for raw materials. Mining leaves behind unmistakable traces; if there was any mining in the Atlantean period then it must all have happened on the continental shelf, as it is certain that there are no ten-thousand year old coal mines or iron ore mines on the land surface of the Earth as we see it today.
Even if civilization collapses and our artifacts fall into decay, there will still be ruins of plenty of our large buildings available to see. 12,000 years just isn't that long. Look at how many ruins of buildings of only modest height, made of unreinforced masonry, are still on display after two thousand years. Nobody has cleaned and maintained the Egyptian pyramids for much longer than that, and they're still good as new. I don't think 12,000 years will be enough time for them to be completely buried under sand judging by how little is covered now. The Great Wall of China hasn't required much upkeep. Today's cars contain more durable materials than your father's Oldsmobile and won't be collapsed piles of rust in 12,000 years. The higher-numbered plastics are pretty sturdy. Our trash will probably endure longer than any other artifacts.
