Autonomic Half Life, or Why Women are Crazy

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by madanthonywayne, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Every man has probably had this experience. You're in an argument with your wife/girlfriend and, just when you think the argument is over, she suddenly dredges up some ancient thing you did wrong 20 years ago that you can't even remember and starts the fight all over again.

    As a man, I've always said "WTF!?" to myself as such moments. Why in the hell is she picking a fight about something that I don't even remember?

    I've always written it off as further evidence of female insanity. But science has actually come up with an answer.

    Emotion, it seems, is largely a result of our brain interpreting what our body is doing. So, when we're pissed off about something; our heart rate increases, our pupils dilate, etc. Our brain senses this and we experience anger, or fear, or whatever seems appropriate.

    These responses are beyond our conscious control and are controled by our autonomic nervous system. In men, once a situation is resolved, the autonomic nervous system quickly returns to normal and we cease to experience the emotion associated with the event. Thus, when the fight is over, we cool off right away.

    But in women the autonomic half life is about double that of men. So when a fight is over and whatever you were fighting about is resolved; a woman's brain still detects all the symptoms of anger. So what does it do? It searches for something to be angry about. The result? The seemingly irrational female picking a fight over something the man can't even remember.

    Half-life of the autonomic nervous system.

    If you ever have arguments with people of the opposite sex, the following may be the most valuable advice you will receive all year.

    In humans, strong emotion starts with physiological changes in your body, not with an awareness of the emotion in your brain. So when somebody pisses you off, your heart rate increases, your adrenaline surges, and your muscles tighten up even before you realize that you’re angry. Or, as William James wrote, “we feel sorry because we cry, angry because we strike, afraid because we tremble,” not the other way around.

    According to neurobiologist Robert Sapolsky, men and women are about the same in the speed with which their physiology gets engaged in strong emotions. However, in women, the nervous system takes a bit longer to “settle down” and return to normal than it does in men.

    What this means is that as an argument winds down, a man will start feeling calmer relatively quickly — while a woman’s body remains in an agitated state even after the apparent resolution of the argument. Because everyone’s brain takes cues from the body, her brain realizes it’s still angry. So it starts casting about for other things to be angry about. Bam: Suddenly the argument flares up again, about a new subject.

    Sound familiar? Fortunately, once you know about this, it’s not too hard to figure out how to handle it, whether you’re male or female. If you’re a man arguing with a woman, once the argument seems to be winding up, it’s time to say something funny, switch the subject to a completely different (non-controversial) topic, or do something nice for her. If you’re a woman, you need to remind yourself to go chill out, step into a different room, or do something to calm down before you reignite the argument.

    Or, as Sapolsky and his wife do, you can just remind each other, “Honey, don’t forget what the half-life is on the autonomic nervous system!”
    http://dylan.tweney.com/2007/01/11/half-life-of-the-autonomic-nervous-system/

    http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2006/05/05
     
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  3. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm, I'm not sure the distaff element of Sciforums will be too pleased with the second clause of the thread title - "Why Women are Crazy". But then again, they're female so they'll complain about the slightest little thing.

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    /cowers in anticipation of the response from his (female) co-mod of this sub-forum.

    Interesting find though, Madant.
    I wonder what the biological/ evolutionary reason for it is.

    Oh, and why doesn't it seem to work the other way round?
    "And another thing! You were magnificent last night and I really loved the birthday present you bought me 8 years ago". :shrug:
     
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  5. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    That's odd. I am female, but I don't find that = I tend to come down off a rage abruptly and even "crash" and feel weak and tired.
     
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  7. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Perhaps, with males being more prone to violence, those who tended to pick fights even after the actual dispute was over were more likely to get themselves killed.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, that makes sense.
    So, effectively, (and I will deny utterly ever writing this...

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    ) women are "normal" and men, due their aggressiveness have, out of necessity, had their autonomic nervous system somewhat curtailed as a survival measure.
     
  9. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    I would suggest it's down to Emotion. Most women are intouch with being emotional, some of course are a bit more masculine when it comes to feels. (Not suggesting anything Visceral)

    Men for the most part detatch themselves as much as they can, afterall thats what makes a man a man. Of course there are exceptions to the rules, with some guys trying to be emotional either because of romantic tendancies or because they just happen to be a bit camp.

    The development of emotion places more emphasis on sensation and therefore the nerve system, as well as psychological constructs like Empathy. The nerve system becomes therefore more honned and responsive because of this.

    This all triggers the body to produce chemicals in response to these states, which is why some people will have a different chemical makeup based upon how sensative they are. (There was actually a study done on one of the brainaic programs based upon saliva between introvert and extravert volunteers... the outcome was the conclusion that hte introvert [likely a romantic at heart] drooled considerably more.)

    Emotion does of course have it's setbacks, for instance it can lead to increased anxiety, socio-constructs like feeling hurt when someone lies to you or doesn't turn up on time and of course bearing a grudge for along period of time.

    As for it's positives... well, lets just say hugging a cold stone isn't exactly conforting, so the opposite... [conjuncture!...]
     
  10. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say I'm emotionally masculine. Just that I'm a 'quick to ignite and quick to burn out' type. I have a VERY volatile temper and I'll release a shit ton of adrenaline, but after a while I'll come down off it very sharply. I do tend to hold grudges but I don't find that my anger is 'transferable' as the article described.

    Can't really agree there, men can be plenty tough and cool in the face of danger, without getting rid of all their emotional palette except the red and maybe the vermilion if they're particularly New Age inclined.

    I often find that my male friends will refuse to be emotional around other males, but will happily unload to me about whatever is bothering them. I think some of it is largely social - they want to be seen as hard and invulnerable.
     
  11. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Thats actually what I was trying to convey. It's a socio-construct, although not all men write poetry.
     
  12. PieAreSquared Woo is resistant to reason Registered Senior Member

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    However, in women, the nervous system takes a bit longer to “settle down”

    Yeah like 30 years

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  13. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Men are wayyyyy more 'human' than they like to be seen as being.
     
  14. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I have a theory...

    Could it be that women's anger is 'transferable' because they often have a strong tendency to keep it to themselves for fear of hurting someone's feelings or being disapproved of?

    Think about it. Someone angers you, but you shut up about it to keep the peace, and you never really get over it. So when you finally do lose your temper, you bring that up too because on some level it's still bothering you.
     
  15. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Partially. The thing is however that this isn't just a factor in women, there is always a "quiet man", who you hear about going postal with nobody knowing why (Which is likely them righting wrongs that they've had done but never dealt with at the time the wrongs occured)

    (incidentally He was a quiet man is a pretty clever film looking at the social withdrawal of one man on the edge.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2010
  16. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Falling Down is pretty good on that too. You can sympathise and identify with Douglas's character all the way through and then the line "Wait, you mean I'm the bad guy"...
     
  17. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    True. Men do it too, it's just more common in women.
     
  18. Skeptical Registered Senior Member

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    Gender based generalisations are always a trap.
    We fall foul of the fact of human variability. So we start out saying, "as a rule women are ....."

    And then some gal jumps up and says : "Oy, I am not like that at all!"

    And of course, she is right. Everyone is different from everyone else, and generalisations are dangerous in the extreme.
     
  19. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. Generalizations can be harmful because individual people get treated as stereotypes regardless of how they really are.
     
  20. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Isn't it true that men had to work together closely during hunts etc. and therefor it was beneficial if arguments were settled quickly?
    Perhaps there wasn't such a pressure on women.
     
  21. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I think women just have longer-term emotional memories than men - or just better memories in general, if my partner is anything to go by.
     
  22. stratos Banned Banned

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    In the book, “Why Marriages Succeed or Fail”(1994), John Gottman made the findings of his 20-year program of research on marital interaction accessible to the general public. He surveyed over 2000 couples. He reported that studies of couples having emotional discussions show that MEN produce higher heart rates and blood pressures, for longer periods of time, than women do.
     
  23. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Gotta figure there's a good reason for that, then. Once the floodgates are open and no one is hitting anyone, clearing out old hurts and grudges seems like not a bad idea at all.

    I think men are just as likely to draw conclusions - such as that women are crazy - but want the scope of any discussion to be...well, what they want it to be. Actually, I would guess, one could find logical connections between what seem like leaps by the women. And if some shitty thing was done in the past and never acknowledged as such, well it's a good thing for a relationship to go through. And if it wasn't a shitty thing, it will also be good for the woman to have this clarified.

    Men, it seems to me, strive often for getting these things out of the way and returning to a kind of order. A peaceful one. Sure, sometimes numbed out or distracted, but also, just getting along. This has pluses and minuses.

    Women it seems to me are seeking resolution on a level that men would often prefer not to deal with. This can be incredibly annoying. On the other hand, working through that shit can have benefits for both. Intimacy being one.
     

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