B.Sanders: $15 minimum wage

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Michael, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    20,220
    Remember this political hack?
    NYT: Bernie (I never earned a paycheck until I was 40) Sanders proposes a Federal Minimum Wage of 15 dollars per hour.

    Far from 'stimulating' growth, because now low-wage laborer's can go out spend spend spend on made-in-china frivolous stuff, which is 'good for the economy' (destroying the Earth's ecosystems in the process) all that has happened is SOME workers get a 'raise' while many other workers get fired.

    Which is EXACTLY what was predicted to happen.



    Consumerist: Wendy’s Installing Self-Ordering Kiosks In 1,000 Restaurants.


    In the free-market there is no 'economic' incentive for fast-food to pump money into the development of robots. The labor market for low-skilled labor is overflowing with people who want a job (like all those B.A graduates in social equality studies). The ONLY reason a restaurant owner, or anyone buying anything for that matter, pumps money into robotics at this end of the market, is to save money on labor. That cost is pushed through in inflation (which GiverMint loves as this helps with its' own debts) and crushes the low-skilled worker who now not only lacks a job, but is stuck pay MORE for low-end products. Add to this ridiculous regulations and almost every business with the means to do so, moves overseas - further harming the poorest and the hourly worker.

    Thank Demagogues like Bernie, and there's a LONG history of them, for helping to revitalize the robotic industry - at the cost of low-skilled workers. But hey, it's not like Bernie's ever owned a successful business that employs thousands of employees (or worked a day in his life outside of peddling snake-oil and other B.S.).
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    He worked as a carpenter, among other jobs, in his twenties. Also as a Head Start teacher and psychiatric aide, among other minimum wage type jobs. Both his parents had died while he was young.

    You will never learn to fact check, because your fantasy world would fall apart if you did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There's been a free market in fast food wages for some time (since the minimum wage declined so far that fast food places could afford to beat it), and automating as much of the job as possible has been a priority nevertheless.

    The fast food employers who didn't want to pay minimum wage were beating the law anyway, by hiring part timers etc. What's happening is not that wages are rising, but that capable and sophisticated robots are getting cheaper.
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    My god, you're so full of it. You cannot have a 'free market' in fast-food wages without having a free-market in fast-food. Is this THAT hard for you to understand? If you only allow 1 restaurant in town, ONLY ONE, and then use regulatory capture to ensure that the ONE restaurant owner is the only place of employment for low-skilled workers, then of course, the supply of labor-hours will be overwhelmingly high, and the price per hour will be overwhelmingly LOW.

    Which, thanks to Progressive Socialism, is exactly what has happened in the so-called "Land of the Free" (try Fleeced) aka: USA Inc. You know, where you need permission from your local Political Ruler to cook a hotdog and *GAAAAAAAASP* sell it. Oh, you can give it away, but you can't sell it. Noo noo nooooo, because, the, um, THE ROADS! Yes, you use THE ROADS!!!

    LOL

    Artificially raising the price of labor-hours is the exact same as artificially raising the price of a box of cereal. Consumption goes down. In this case, rent-seekers hire less humans. Which is what was predicted. And what has happened. WOULD robots eventually replace humans? Of course they will. In probably every single low-skilled job there is. But, when GiverMint bullsh*tters like Bernie The Bum push up the price, they drive innovation into robotics that would have otherwise went into other areas of the economy, like medicine, or travel, or new video game.

    That's how it works. And works, it has.

    That's okay, "Because White" should be good enough for you.

    Next stop: Bernie the Bullsh*tter's new $600,000 beachfront summer home. How many homes does this PUBLIC SERVANT need anyway? I mean, I knew the bullsh*tting politicians were paid well, but this is bit much - don't you think. Oh, wait, Bernie the Bum endorsed Hillbilly Clinton, pay back time is pretty sweet for the Ruling Class.
     
  8. Oystein Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    It's a shame that the economy is so bad (for the middle and lower classes) that a minimum wage job is no longer a starting point for a decent middle class job. Nowadays a minimum wage job is something an unlucky soul gets stuck in.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    22,876
    I'm trying to imagine an America in which only one fast food restaurant is allowed in a town, and there is no competitive market in fast food, and nobody else is allowed to hire unskilled labor - not even Walmart.

    What color would the sky be, on that planet?
    You didn't read your link, obviously.
    Your uncanny knack for posting links that undermine, debunk, or even flatly contradict, the assertion you claim to be supporting with them, is highlighted once again - - -
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  10. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    890
    I used the words "an unlucky soul". The correct words would be: "a person who didn't plan properly". The person stuck in a minimum wage job is probably there for one of the following reasons:

    - started a family before he/she was financially sound
    - dropped out of school or never went farther than high school (one of the "why do I need algebra? crowd")
    - married someone who is worse off than they are
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    22,876
    To rephrase slightly:
    - Started a family before age 27 in the modern economy, after hitting puberty at age 14 as humans do.
    - is among the 2/3 of American teenagers intellectually unsuited for college, raised in a bad school district, forced to take full time work for family, jailed, etc.
    - married or took up with someone who left them, was jailed, was abusive, or became addicted to drugs/booze

    There are some subcategories: immigrant without the language, lead and pollution poisoned, drug addicted, some kind of health problem, racially black and physically plain, and of course simply unintelligent - which is a damning flaw unless possessed of wealthy parents, white skin, etc.

    In other words, failed to plan properly as an 8 year old - for their adult life.
     
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,220
    You don't have to imagine very hard. Go out front of your home, set up a BBQ and start selling chicken. Then, when the police come, resist your arrest.

    There are NO free-markets in the USA. Starting with our sh*t State-run fiat currency, progressing through our State-run labor-tax, State-run regulatory burden and culminating in a plethora of State-run licencing scams, every single aspect of life in the "Land of the Free" is tightly regulated by the State.

    Almost everything. If Progressive Socialists had their way, it would be everything. Every single aspect of each "Citizen's" life would be tightly regulated in their Nation State dystopia.


    Whereas an IQ of 85 is more than enough to cook up some BBQ chicken and trade it for money, most people with an IQ of 85 will never be allowed to open the EXACT SAME business because they they'll never complete all the paperwork. Which, overtime, has totally destroyed the culture of entrepreneurialism in poor neighborhoods. Replacing it with a culture of single-mother baby mills where if you talk your moronic bf into murdering your other baby's father, and they go to jail - YOU GET PAID MORE.

    Progressive Socialism has destroyed poor communities. But that's okay, "Because White".

    LOL

    Vote for Bernie the Bullsh*tter. You can catch him outback of his new summer home tanning his lily white arse in the sun. He's a real producer that one. Apple iPhones, move aside, you ain't got nuttin on B.Sanders new line of bullsh*t he's selling.



    Incidentally, while Japan is a Nation State and has plenty of regulations - you'll find MANY Japanese setting up businesses in their own homes. It's actually very common. And why wouldn't it be? It's their property. THEIR property. And if they *GAAAASP* make a profit selling something, then guess what iceaura, this isn't evidence of them 'stealing from the poor Blacks - because "White", it's evidence of them providing a service or producing a good. The profit they make - is a virtue.

    Almost everything you think you know, is completely wrong. SO, just keep muttering Because White. See how far that gets you. Those of us who actually want to make change, will use Science, logic, peaceful parenting to pry loose the grip from your Statist hands - simply by refusing to do business with you.

    This is why it would be wonderful if we could see the US split into 4 nations. Over time, the freest would become rich, and some would buy the land from you socialists (why anyone would want to live amongst you is beyond me though).

    Peacefully.

    Just let you do your thing, and we do our thing. See how simple this works? And get this, once you have your own little Progressive Authoritarian Socialist paradise, you can have all the free-shit you want. Vote away!

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    It's a win-win.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  13. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Minimum wage jobs have NEVER been an entry point into the middle class. Minimum wage jobs are the entry into the job market, not a class.

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  14. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    890
    Whatever. Find someone else to argue semantics. What a putz.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Engage in inconsequential or unproductive activity much?
     
  15. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    It's okay to admit you can't defend your own statements.
     
  16. Oystein Registered Senior Member

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    890
    Don't you have any mates up there to argue with, eh?
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    22,876
    If I walk down to the nearest corner where chicken-selling would be a viable business, a survey shows me four fast food outlets and another half dozen low wage employers in the surrounding area. At least. And I can't see the Walmart, Target, or Home Depot - all of which are automating their checkout lines, not in fear of high wages in particular but (they say, when asked) in response to the decrease in cost of automation vs rise in cost of employees - especially health care and (if they go part time to duck that) training and replacement.

    And it's not a big town.

    You live in delusion.
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    3,936
    college town joke
    I have a doctorate in english literature, did you want fries with that?
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    22,876
    Something that turns up fairly often in biographies of bigtime CEOs: a degree of some kind in philosophy.
     
  20. wellwisher

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    5,103
    The left misses the bigger picture, because the left was part of the problem, as to why it all came to this. In the past, the best paying jobs for low educated and low skill workers was in manufacturing. Assembly line is a repetitive task, which nevertheless would pay well. Fast food jobs used to be entry level job, for young adults in high school. After the youngsters graduated high school, most would find better jobs in the trades, working for government and/or in manufacturing. The auto assembly line worker could earn a excellent living wage with a job that could last a lifetime and have a pension.

    The problem began when the left started to ship manufacturing jobs overseas, instead of creating incentives so these jobs remain in the US. There was too much leftist hakedown for taxes and via regulations. The left like to bully. Cities like Detroit, which at one time was a jewel city of the US; 1950-60's, due to excellent paying manufacturing, support jobs and businesses, and construction, fell into disrepair as manufacturing jobs went overseas. The only jobs that were left, which are harder to ship overseas, were fast foods and stores. The need for the $15/hr minimum wage is due to loss of good jobs and having turn entry level jobs into a substitute for lost careers.

    The same geniuses, who created the problem, have decided they are the experts at the solution. One should not trust these boneheads, since they are not thinking in terms of a long term sustainable solution. This is all short term thinking, for political gain.

    What will happen is the higher minimum wage for entry level jobs, will make fast foods more expensive, such that the poor and elderly, on a fixed incomes, will not be able to eat there. The loss of this significant clientele means many of these companies will go bankrupt and many jobs will be lost. Fast foods is a poor person's restaurant. If you make it too expensive, the entire concept of fast food will need to change, to survive. They may decide to uno scale and use organic ingredients, so they can attract a higher class clientele, which now excludes the poor, who can;t afford the $10 gourmet organic grown burger.

    Trump is doing this the right way. He learned from the past and knows he need to bring back the best jobs that low skilled workers ever had, which is manufacturing. The tasks of manufacturing are repetition, which allows the worker's value go up with time and experience.; career. Fast food needs to stay cheap, so the poor people have a place to eat out. Fast food, like in the past, will be a young person's job and stepping stone to learn work skills. This model worked when America was great; make America great, again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    22,876
    Imagine how much better things would have been if Republicans and conservative Democrats had been in charge, when all those jobs were being shipped overseas to Mexico by the leftists who were running everything. They could have stopped the leftist bullying of General Motors, rolled back the oppressive corporate taxes and punitive income tax rates, broken the bullying unions, concentrated the freeloading and criminal takers in special inner city zones with hardcore police monitoring, and protected the productive hardworking executives in low tax suburbs - stopped all this bad stuff from happening.
     
  22. Oystein Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    He'll never bring back manufacturing jobs that are now in China. Not in the foreseeable future. Have you seen how Chinese manufacturing plants and assembly lines operate? And their lower wages? And the cost of materials is less. The US can't compete with that.

    Sorry, but the folks in Erie, PA are not getting their paper clip factory back.
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    OMG, we do NOT live in a free-market. You Progressive Socialists think you're going to wave a magic wand (in reality it's a very real gun) and through State coerscion you can steal the people money and replace it with a fiat currency, manipulate the price of labor-hours, use regulations to limit the number of healthcare professionals, insurance companies not to mention who can do what in society - and then you have the gall to blame this hyper-regulated market for developing robotics to deal with Socialism and the market distortions that go along with it?!?

    Give me a break.

    Yes, employers are going to buy more robots. The reason why is Progressive Socialism. It has ruined the price-mechanism. Which is what it always does. And with it, society itself. Healthcare should be cheap - it's not because of socialism. Housing should be cheap. Cars should be cheap. Businesses should be plentiful. None of this exists because of socialism. Instead we have mass under-employed, a rent-slumlord society, a falling birthrate, healthcare that's ungodly expensive while at the same time the #2 reason you will die, and a corrupt banking system, being bailed out on the backs of generations of unborn "Citizens".

    You can thank Progressive Socialism for this. It has disincentivized hiring low-skilled (often low IQ) people because the State has made it cheaper to buy a robot. This trend COULD have happened naturally. Organically. That didn't happen.

    Losers like B.Sanders - who've barely worked a day in his life, who makes singing one song over and over and over: The Free-Shit marching band, he'll lead this country to ruin. Which is actually happening. Right here. Right now.

    So, don't blame the so-called 'free-markets', progressive socialists ended those over 100 years ago.
     
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