Bad ideas in the Drug War

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Tiassa, May 31, 2000.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Seriously, if I had asserted that things would come to this back when Exosci's posters argued about Pedophile Registration, well, I wouldn't have believed myself.

    Now, pedophiles and their registries aren't the point.

    But here's a new ill-considered registry:

    Just think about it ... with such a law in during prohibition, your grandfather would be a registered offender for drinking a beer.

    Start thinking about that term: Registered offender.

    Soon enough, everyone will be a registered offender of some sort.

    What's next, a Scarlet Letter, or a Lime Popsicle?

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  3. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    Tiassa,

    It's an attack from the back door. They are using public humiliation (SP?) to try and stem a problem. Instead they should be trying to attack the things that cause the problem. I'm for regulating Maryjane like they do beer, but it is extreamly hard to justify the same for the rest of the drugs out there.
     
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  5. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    'Tis a frightening prospect indeed. I thought we had gotten away from the pillories, the gambler's necklaces, and branding. This is a step backward. I would normally describe it as a Band-Aid on a sucking wound, but it's more like Scotch Tape.

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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Gotta throw this in ....

    My own brother is a supporter of such a law. In fact, he thinks its the coolest thing he's ever heard, and justified that with perhaps the most unique perspective I have yet to hear become the standard joke:

    Jonesing for a fix? Just go online and see who's been busted for dealing in your area. They'd probably appreciate the business.

    they could call it superkindregistry.com

    Yeah, I know.

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    Anyway, thanx much Sixes & O2. I'm not sure what I would expect anyone to say; this bill just couldn't be passed up, though. I much appreciate your comments.

    And Sixes--I like the alcohol-regulation perspective. Ideally, I'd call that a clean victory.

    O2--Does duct tape hurt more when you pull it off body-hair? Band-Aids aside, I'm wondering what it's going to feel like when the wounds are healed and its time to remove the dressings.

    thanx much,
    Tiassa

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  8. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, in all of my experiences with duct tape, I've never had it stick to two things: myself and ducts.

    Hmmm...go figure.
     
  9. Cable Man Registered Senior Member

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    92
    The US Constitution allows for the Federal Government to defend itself against outside invasion and to provide for peace within it's borders via a justice system. Similar rights are granted to states.

    Don't fix something that ain't broke. Well, our drug policies are broke so fix them in a way that penalizes the offender without inconveniencing the masses. Knowing thy neighbor sounds good to me.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    CableMan--

    I get your point about the Constitution, but even with it in front of me I have to connect a few dots.

    But do you realize that this is actually about Nylon? Really--that's it. We used to have a Federal Bureau of Narcotics, whose job it was to learn about narcotic substances and formulate public policy. President Nixon didn't like BoN, because in 1974, they recommended decriminalization of marijuana and also extended study for medical benefits. Thus, the Bureau of Narcotics was replaced by the Drug Enforcement Agency. Since the 1980's, there has been a "Drug Czar" running the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Everything about the War Against Drugs is aimed at a criminal solution. That's fundamentally wrong. It's the reason the rapists, murderers, and other sundry violent criminals get less-than-desirable sentences. It's the reason that holding people in prison is a growth industry in the United States.

    Drugs are illegal for commercial reasons. The most part of the darkside of drugs--especially violent crime--exist because of these commercial laws. Nixon's War Against Drugs came after 35 years of jailing people on behalf of Nylon.

    That's the problem with any drug crime. To register offenders who shouldn't be criminals at all is ludicrous. Prohibition didn't end because of a massive public need to get drunk; it ended because alcohol-related violence went berserk during Prohibition.

    Check some of the early anti-drug propaganda. It's got nothing. It had nothing until a generation of drug users had been generally disenfranchised with various felony drug convictions. Economically disempowered people often turn to nefarious means; world history demonstrates this.

    Consider the three drugs they've written special sentencing schedules for: LSD, crack, and methamphetamine.

    Did you know that these sentencing schedules regard LSD as more dangerous than crack? Furthermore, Stanford University's studies on addiction showed as much as a 50% hard cure rate for alcoholism under controlled circumstances; this was before the hippies had the stuff. Stanford also tested "linear" professionals: architects, physicists, computer scientests, and so forth, as well as a couple of poets for good measure. There's a History Channel special that features an interview blurb with an old guy who claims his participation in Stanford's LSD program advanced his work on computer transistor boards by a decade.

    I mean, any drug is dangerous. We know that. Caffeine will kill more people this year than marijuana. (Jack Herer, in The Emperor Wears No Clothes confirms this with a study of everything from county autopsy reports to insurance company actuarial data.)

    There's a new report out I mentioned in my other topic against the War Against Drugs; a few research groups are wondering why the Drug AWareness Network (DAWN) is trying to portray marijuana as more dangerous than heroin. (It is worth noting that Harry Anslinger successfully argued this point before Congress in 1937, only a year after advocating federal subsidies for "decorticators" to maximize a potential hemp crop.)

    The point of this raving list of ludicrous examples is that nothing in the War Against Drugs makes any real sense. Cops in New York are killing people for not having drugs on them; the police are conducting no-knock, warrantless raids and charging people with "Detriment to Quality of Life".

    None of it makes any sense. And the reason for that is because drugs are treated as a criminal issue. They need to be treated as a health and education issue.

    Wow ... um, okay. First, sorry to get so furiously rolling there; I just realized how long I'd gone on. But in way of thin justification, I would say that the Drug War is one of the things that will get me up on my damn soapbox the quickest. For everything Americans desire for their society, I think that treating drugs as a criminal issue is one of the most ill-fated of our endeavors. Not only does it fail to achieve progress, but it's creating social ills that wouldn't otherwise exist.

    Did you know that nobody's responsible if the cops raid the wrong house and kill someone? Sorry ... there's a few dead people lately that shouldn't be, and it's really starting to scare me that nothings happening about it simply because the acts were committed for the War Against Drugs. (I'll shut the hell up, now.)

    thanx much for putting up w/it,
    Tiassa

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  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.drcnet.org/wol/#editorial

    Nonetheless, I think we'll all find this a little bit interesting:

    I'm not sure what else to say.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    from, once again, weekly e-letter I receive, The Week Online (#144) from http://www.drcnet.org:

    The article notes that impersonation of a census taker nets three years imprisonment by federal law.

    I expect every police officer involved with the actions in question to serve those three years. "It was a good cause" will not suffice, considering the Census Bureau's mission, and the implications St. Paul police have created regarding the CB.

    Furthermore, let's just take a moment and look at civil asset forfeiture. You know, Zero Tolerance, and other dumb ideas? The idea, of course, being that since drug dealers make their money through illegal means, the State should have the right to seize those ill-gotten assets. Thus, I propose that any of those involved officers who accept their paychecks for the period in which this Census-impersonation incident occurred, who then make a house, car, or rent payment, should be subject to civil asset forfeiture, and have their homes, cars, and furniture taken. I might note that, as ludicrous as this proposition is, it is still kinder than real CAF, in which a drug defendant need not be convicted of any crime to lose their property, and by which illegally seized property is rarely returned to its owner(s); furthermore, I think my CAF-penalty against these officers who take payment for their willful violations of federal law is still kinder than real Forfeiture laws. This warning isn't just for the 20 and under crowd: imagine you go out to your folks' house, pop off a joint in the car while sitting in the driveway before you go in. Later that day, the cops arrest you. Guess what? They can seize your parents' house under CAF laws.

    I dunno ... cops out lying about their identity, corrupting the name of a federal office, and charging people with ... are you ready for this ... keeping a disorderly house ... hey, I say seize their property and throw these corrupt cops in the hole for twenty years, not just three. Three years might fit the crime, but twenty years should cover the dishonest motives. They're not fit to carry badges.

    Of course ... this is a War ....

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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    [This message has been edited by tiassa (edited July 10, 2000).]
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I mentioned pedophilia in my topic post--a reference to a different debate here at Exosci. However, I just found this at the website for the National Drug Strategy Network: http://www.ndsn.org/SUMMER99/CAPITOL1.html

    Here goes the pedophilia bit:
    Desperation, in my opinion, is no proper strategy for whatever mission of mercy and protection the DEA claims. Drug Warriors must do better, or else end their stupid war.

    thanx,
    Tiassa

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    We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)
     

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