All you clank scientific atheists should read the latest about the Shroud of Turin. Something you thought had been safely laid in it's grave by your beloved false god Science won't, like Jesus, stay dead and buried as much as you would like it to. The amusing thing about it is that you have been hoisted on your own petard, so to speak...more current science has demolished the conclusions of the previous study that concluded the shroud was a medieval painting and hoax. This is one of those nasty, nagging artifacts of faith that you would just as soon ignore, wouldn't you? What are the statisitcal odds that the sindon---something whose very existence science cannot account for---is an image of anyone but Jesus? Of course you confirmed Christ-haters and deniers will cling to the shreds of you hubristic delusions as long as you can. I pity you.
As one who firmly believes in science, I can say that I do not believe in Jesus as you may see him. However, I, and many others that I know, are open to the possibility of Jesus and God if science shows evidence of their existence. Just because one does not believe in Jesus doesn't mean that he/she hates Him. Such overwhelming generalizations are what have caused many of the misunderstandings between those of the Faith and those of Science.
Odysseus, So you're a christian then? I'm a christian too. That's good, we both believe in god and that Jesus was real. However, if you've read any of my posts, you should see that not all of science is bad. Both science and religion have their good points and their bad points. -Dan
the shroud of turin is a fake. jesus is not. it is quite unfortunate that the shroud was fabricated ultimately for the means of those in (or seeking) power. in fact some would think this to be evidence of truth, but the unceratinty now surrounding the shroud is now very similar to the 'evidence' of alien encounters - every man for himself (so to speak). this is unfortunate because the 'institutional' perspective has now shredded incklings/potential acceptance of christ because this as well as many other elements of (manmade) theological propoganda give rise to such 'doubts'. this is old news though, and a sound tactic of misinformation.
Odysseus You are a sad reflection upon the religious factions who believe in something that you do not truly follow, but only in death will you see that you have been led by your own enemy, tee hee. Just because science argues the toss does not mean Christ is hated, they just look for tangible proof that's all. Christ was a hybrid and his followers shunned him. Still we can't have everything I suppose.
I, for one, actually find it hard to believe that Christ did <u>not</u> exist. I do not hate him, and I do not doubt his existence (much Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) -- but I totally dispute the claim that he was a 'son of God'. Actually, I totally dispute the claim of God's very existence. As for the shroud, it still sounds like a long shot to me. First of all, we've got conflicting evidence between different tests, and there is never enough material available for testing to resolve the conflicts (which is suspiciously convenient.) Next, even if the shroud is actually from Israel, and actually contains an imprint of a body rather than a painting -- what says that it actualy enwrapped Jesus, and not somebody else? ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
I once heard someone argue that the Shroud of Turin was legitimate because the test used to determine the age was inaccurate. Well, what is inaccurate when we are talking about anthropology and archaeology? Of course we can't run certain dating procedures because they are designed to measure periods far greater than two millennia. However, I don't care if the Shroud was used to bury a religious icon named Jesus of Nazareth. It is, as the original poster noted, an "article of faith". Inherent in the idea of faith is that proof is not required; this is a philosophical truism based on accepted definitions of words that has passed all the way down to Douglas Adams' science fiction novels. In fact, Adams argued, and quite well, I think, that any proof of the existence of God automatically nullifies the concept of God. Thus, you might, in the Shroud, have a legitimate article of faith, but in calling it proof, the article of faith loses the God it serves. If I follow science to the unanswerable, "Why," the answer is, "Have patience, good sir, for we shall discover the answer you seek." Yet if I follow religion--any religion--to its unanswerable question, the answer is that this mystery is part of the wonderful nature of God and that it is not my place to seek this answer. Of course, this primarily from a religion that finds its God in a book, whose ministers have gone so far as to allegorically criticize anyone who seeks God outside that book; a book, I might add, that was written largely by the Essenes (Old Testament, according to my Jesuit instructors), whose modern contribution to society is the funky, flowery passages inscribed on the wrapper of a bar of soap. Faith is faith, and bless you for yours, I suppose, poster. But faith is a weapon of limitless evil when executed for personal reasons. What does your faith lead you to? and why, when Christ railed against the hypocrites, do you insist on standing on your street corner praying loudly for all of us to see? thx, Tiassa ------------------ "Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock) [This message has been edited by tiassa (edited August 10, 1999).]
All you clank scientific atheists should read the latest about the Shroud of Turin. Something you thought had been safely laid in it's grave by your beloved false god Science won't, like Jesus, stay dead and buried as much as you would like it to. Don't worry, we will get to the end of this scam...and then what, you will stop believing this ghost story? Why should we become "believers" when your story grows legs again and takes a few steps? The amusing thing about it is that you have been hoisted on your own petard, so to speak...more current science has demolished the conclusions of the previous study that concluded the shroud was a medieval painting and hoax. This is one of those nasty, nagging artifacts of faith that you would just as soon ignore, wouldn't you? What are the statisitcal odds that the sindon---something whose very existence science cannot account for---is an image of anyone but Jesus? Let me guess...wait wait..uh 1 in a trillion? no thats too big...1 in 8.3 billion. Of course you confirmed Christ-haters and deniers will cling to the shreds of you hubristic delusions as long as you can. I pity you. I pity you too...and if anyone is "clinging to shreds," it is you who brought up this smata in the first place. Funny how the church was able to keep this shroud a secret for nearly 1500 years. ------------------ The landscape opened like a children's book... It has the look of careful joy.John N Morris
