Bible Atrocities

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Flash, Jan 3, 2000.

  1. Flash Registered Senior Member

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  3. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks Flash I bookmarked it, but none of it surprises me, after reading a few examples three words come to mind, 'bible author and devious'.

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  5. Searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Flash,

    Well, my vacation may be over with, but at least I know my dancing shoes are waiting for me after work!

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  7. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    Searcher,
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! Can you hear the music???
    hahahahha

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    Look, Lori...I too have a new buddy

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  8. ilgwamh Fallen Angel Registered Senior Member

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    What was the purpose of that sight?

    Vinnie

    Praise Jesus!!!
     
  9. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    Vinnie,
    In another thread Tab had asked me to give more examples as to why I doubt christianity.
    That was the purpose.
     
  10. Searcher Registered Senior Member

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    651
    Here's one that was touched on in that page, and expounded on in another area (reference Genesis 38:8-10):

    8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother."

    9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.

    10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

    Talk about your severe penalties for early withdrawal!!

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    Can't you just feel the love here?

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  11. ilgwamh Fallen Angel Registered Senior Member

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    So how exactly do those examples support your denial of Christianity? Would you mind explaining one by one? How does the fact that David had Uriah killed to marry his wife support your denial of Jesus Christ? I don't understand. Please enlighten me.

    Vinnie

    PRaise Jesus!!!
     
  12. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Vinnie,
    Look...all I am saying is that FIRST, I do not believe in God. Second, If I thought he
    was real..the very things which were posted on that web would be the very things which would DRIVE ME AWAY from him.
     
  13. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member

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    Flash,

    I am, right now, working on a very large website, 25 MG's or more, that will have answers to many of these types of questions and objections. I've noticed in other websites you have posted that , there have even been false or skewed Christian answers mixed in with their claims to give their claims extra support. I'm sure you'll like being able to pick appart a real list of Christian answers to many of the questions of these sites you post. I find it interesting how you have, in the past, called us spoon fed Christians. I wonder if you can see that there is a shovel in your mouth right now. Your feeding off of lies and searching for new ones. None of these points are your own. Flash, when I'm done with the site, or at least that area, I'll let you know.

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    I hope that many here will take a look to see if they can find falt with real answers on the Bible. Also, why don't you go over to <A HREF="http://www.christiananswers.net" TARGET="-blank">http://www.christiananswers.net</A> . You'll find it a nice place to look around until I'm done.

    From a servant of Christ, the King,
    ISDAMan



    [This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited January 05, 2000).]
     
  14. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    ISDAMan,
    Well... look.. can you BELIEVE THE CRAP THAT TS IS TELLING ME??????????????
    Read the thread Anti-christ or not..AND..
    God loves us all... right there is a huge
    bleep bleep that totally pisses me off!!!
    I'm sorry...but it has pissed me off to the point that people at work were saying..
    what is wrong with you??? At work I am always joking around and have a smile on my
    face.... tonight...I was just pissed!!!!
     
  15. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
  16. ilgwamh Fallen Angel Registered Senior Member

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    Flash, thanks for completely avoiding my questions.

    Vinnie

    Praise Jesus!!!
     
  17. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    Vinnie,
    I'm sorry...I just did not see the point in
    explaining it. I guess what I am trying to say is that IF God/Jesus are real... and IF
    the Bible is true... I disagree with it!
    I would not want to give my life to a God that is, in my opinion, egotistical, manipulative, ect...and the KILLING which is
    made right in God's eyes..I just do not see
    how that can be justified. To me it is not love. I see a God who wants praise and worship and allllllllll the credit for this and that... yet, when you dig deeper ... he
    manipulates through fear... do this or I'll
    kill ya. THAT is NOT love. Reread the love chapter in the bible..and you will see that even the description of love does not match up with the description of God.
    The very THOUGHT of giving my life to this God just ..well, I just do not see it. I CAN'T change how I think or feel. I detest
    a lot of the things which God has done in the bible.
    You can say my heart is black, cold, or
    whatever... but it is not. I still love..I do have love in me... I just do not buy into
    christianity.
    Hope this clears things up.
     
  18. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member

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    378
    Flash,

    I already saw that. You know what? Radio stations, in the mornings, when their comedy shows come on like to do funny things with little strategically snipped sound bites from a movie to make it say something that was never being said. Here, all you have shown is someone who has found it easier to do this with print. It's a juvenile tactic he has used. Don't worry, I'll cover everything I can in the website.

    Christ Holds The Future,
    ISDAMan
     
  19. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    ISDAMan,
    For your information...my whole rejection of the word of God just does not come from these
    contradictions. Come on, man...give me
    a break... just a little????
     
  20. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    1,122
    Hello again, ISDMan!

    My prayers are with you in your loving endeavor and I am anxiously awaiting the new website!!!

    With the Love and Peace of Jesus Christ...
     
  21. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    About 50% of the old testament is filled with attrocities and carnage sanctioned, requested, or assisted by God. This sounds more like an evil god than one who is meant to be all-good. Perhaps God doesn't recognize evil.

    If God does not know there is evil, he is not omniscient. If God knows there is evil but cannot prevent it, he is not omnipotent. If God knows there is evil and can prevent it but desires not to, he is not omnibenevolent. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, we must conclude that God is not all-good. The existence of evil in the universe excludes this possibility. This is a basic contradiction in the Christian definition of God.

    Which one or more of these characteristics of God would Christians like to drop so that the definition might appear logically possible?

    One could argue that God created man with the power of choice in the hope that man would voluntarily pursue the good, but that man thwarts this desire of God through sin and thus brings evil and punishment upon himself. But this makes no sense. There can be no barriers to devine omnipotence, no obstacles to thwart his desires, so we must assume that the present state of the world is precisely as God desires it to be. God created man with full knowledge of the widespread suffering that would ensue, and, given his ability to prevent this situation, we must presume that God desired and willed these immoral attrocities to occur.

    Is this really the kind of being you want to follow?
     
  22. Christian Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    47
    Cris,

    Contrary to what you might choose to believe, given the free-will which God gave you, God IS all powerful and has the POWER to do anything. What God chooses to do is up to God, who is a heck of a lot smarter and wiser than you or I and even I can recognize evil.

    God knows there is evil, so do I, and I'm not even omniscient.

    God can prevent evil but chooses to give us a free-will. How we choose to exercise our free-will is up to us, even if it means turning our back on our all loving God.

    God exercises God's omnibenevolence in God's omniscient way. Perhaps because you are human and you are not God and you are not omniscient and you choose to go against our good God, you don't understand true omnibenevolence. God recognizes our sins and loves us anyway because God is omnibenevolent. In God's omnibenevolence, God has given us the gift of free-will. Our all-kindly God does not force us to choose good. Our all-loving God desires for us to love in return. God's gift of free-will and God's unconditional love for us is evidence of God's all-kindness.

    In God's omniscience and omnipotence, God has the power to do evil and chooses to be all good.

    As you can see, this is an incorrect conclusion coming from someone who knows next to nothing about God and who has even claimed that God does not exist.

    The spirit which guides you is a contradiction of God.

    When are you going to drop your characteristic pride and realize that there is one who exists who has given you life, who has given you free-will, who knows more than you, who is wiser than you and who is more loving than you?

    Hey, if there is no God, then this would mean that Cris is one of the most powerful and all-knowing in the universe, wouldn't it? How convenient!

    In giving us our loving gift of life, our all-loving God chooses not to be all-controlling. Immoral atrocities occur because there are those who use their free-will to turn there backs on God, who is love.

    The logic presented in your post above is about as good as the logic you presented in the thread you started which was called GOD HATES US ALL which was deleted.

    May God have mercy on your soul - You, who refuses the gift of love from God, who does not love God and who uses your free-will to turn against God, thereby eradicating your ability to know God but only giving you the capacity to hate God.




    [This message has been edited by Christian (edited January 11, 2000).]
     
  23. Cris In search of Immortality Valued Senior Member

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    9,199
    Hi Christian,

    Nice to hear from you again. Sorry about the other day. I was using a well tried argument but was trying to adapt it to a current topic, I inserted verbs instead of nouns and as you quite rightly pointed out it fell flat. The topic had only existed for a matter of minutes so I was pretty sure we were the only contributors. I didn't have time to correct it then so it was simpler to delete it. I wanted to email you to explain but you had not left an email address. Apologies for any distress caused. The reference to Hate in the title was just an eye catcher - it worked, it caught you.

    Also, please do not misunderstand my approach to these subjects, I intend no personal threat or offence to you or to anyone, but I do want to explore apparent inconsistencies in the Christian religion. It has been around for 2000 years now so it should not be difficult to answer my questions. I would make a simple request of you, I am trying my best, perhaps inadequately, to make logical arguments, it would help if you did not answer them with assertions without justifying the assertion - that doesn't move the argument in either direction. For example; you assert that God is all powerful, how do you know that? What is the justification for your claim?

    Rather than answer each of your points (to show and comment on quotes of quotes would be messy), I'm going to try a different approuch and re-state my objection in a simpler manner. I believe my previous logic was without fault, but we are seeing things from two extremes. I also recognize and respect your passion and very strong beliefs.

    The original topic was bible attrocites and many were listed. My claim here is that God cannot be omnibenevolent. Here are a few more attrocities.

    God demanded and sanctioned human sacrifices (Leviticus 27. 28-29; judges 11. 29-40; 2 Samuel 21. 1-9). He killed the first-born of every Egyptian family (Exodus 12. 29). He sanctioned slavery (Exodus 21. 2-6; Leviticus 25. 44-46) and the selling of one's daughter (Exodus 21.7). He commanded the killing of witches (Exodus 22.18), death for heresy (Exodus 22.20), death for violating the sabbath (Exodus 31. 14-15), death for cursing one's parents (Leviticus 20.9), death for adultery (Leviticus 20.10), death for blasphemy (Leviticus 24.16), and death by stoning for unchastity at the time of marriage a penalty imposed only upon women (Deuteronomy 22.20-21).

    He was also responsible for directly exterminating large numbers of people, usually through pestilence or famine, and often for rather unusual offenses. In one instance, he is reported to have killed 70,000 men because David took a census of Israel (2 Samuel 24). In another strange case, he sent two bears to rip apart forty-two children for mocking the prophet Elisha (2 Kings 2. 23-24).

    Passages such as the above abound in the Old Testament, and they led Thomas Paine (Age of Reason 1794) to declare:

    Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel.

    To be omnibenevolent, God must be capable of evil but always chooses the good. You have already stated that God recognizes evil and that he recognizes our sins and forgives us anyway. Now I'm not talking about men doing evil here, it is God himself who has committed the attrocities listed above. This isn't a matter of men having free-will. Consider how we would react today if a supernatural being decided to tear apart 42 children for criticising a man's bald head (2 Kings 2. 23-24). This is truly evil by our standards.

    My simple question is: How do you reconcile the Christian claim that God is omnibenevolent (always does good) with the recorded attrocities he has committed?

    Note that The National Catholic Almanac also states as part of the definition of God that he is immutable (does not change). In other words the God of today is the same God of the old testament. Presumably what he did then he could easily do again today.
     

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