Clearly you are not open-minded. If you were you would realize that you have faith. Every single one of us has faith. (Just ask yourself what happens to you when you die.) So are you calling yourself idiotic--all-knowing snakelord? You clearly reak of pride. You clearly have never read the Bible. If you have, what is the repeating message of the Bible—the repeating theme that ties the Old Testament with the New Testament?" You clearly did not read my other points. You are clearly resorting to low blows with nothing to back you up. You are clearly missing the whole point of this forum. Are you trying to convert me to the evolution religion or learn about what is out in the world? Do you want me to resort to low blows? So--I'm just imagining Christ, the Bible, my conscience, creation, and all the millions of other Christians around the world? I will bet you have never been outside the country (or you don't like to travel to other countries). Cause clearly you are not global minded. Actually Muslims hold Jesus to be a prophet. And they don't believe they can know for sure they're going to heaven. They worship a dead prohet! Here's my question: Do you honestly believe your limited cerebal brain cells can handle the knowledge of the universe? “Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they don’t understand, but for me I have always noticed that the passages that bother me are those I do understand.” Mark Twain
I am "open minded", just not so open minded the brain falls out. That's where we differ. From an evidential perspective: I rot in the ground. Sure, the faith perspective could kick in and I could believe that tiny little invisible worms from Mars come and raise me up from the dead to party on round the cosmos. The reason theists do it is because even they know how utterly moronic "faith" is. As such they do their utmost to try and push "faith" as being a part of everyone's life. In doing so it makes them feel less stupid about the crap they have "faith" in. All knowing? Absolutely not. I work my life on evidence. Of course I could just adopt some faith and believe that a banjo playing omnipotent banana made me omniscient and therefore state that I am all-knowing. Not the way my life works pal. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Kindly explain exactly what I said that gave you this opinion. Right now I'll go £1000 that says I've read it more than you have. It would have to be independently verified by certain tests regarding biblical text. Tell me when you're ready. Kindly show me where I did anything of the sort. In my last post you wont find so much as one insult or even half-insult. Still, I will acknowledge that we all have different levels at which we get offended. Tell me what it is exactly that you considered offensive and I'll apologise. Well, my 5 or 6 years here have gone quite smoothly. But hey, you clearly know more than I do so kindly tell me the whole point of this forum. Evolution is not a religion. It's weird but the way you add the word religion, comes across as if you consider religion to be a terrible thing. It seems almost like you're trying to justify the nonsense that you wish to believe in and pretend to believe in. It's like "if I can convince the world that anything that is real is 'religion' then that makes whatever I believe in real as well". I guess the constant self convincing helps you sleep better at night. Absolutely 100% spot on.. You are imagining it. I'll give you £1000 right now if you can show you've travelled more than I have, (based upon indepent scrutinizing of travel records - [passports etc]). Because you didn't quote specific points I personally fail to see exactly what in my post you are talking about. Absolutely not. It is the thiest that claims to have the answers. Will you admit, (given that you yourself realise the idiocy of claiming your limited brain knows much of anything), that you could be completely wrong? Do you even understand what he's saying? I get the impression, (considering you quoted it), that you haven't got the slightest clue what he is actually saying, (most will know I am a big Twain fanatic, having studied his writing in depth). Tell me.. what is Twain saying?
No, he was an atheist that brought up religion in quite a few of his works. We could argue of course that by the fact that he wrote about religious matters that he was a theologian, but he wasn't specifically.
Thank you for sharing what you wrote with me. I do appreciate it. It helps me to know what other people in the world believe. Unfortunately, however, because you "thought" you knew the Lord, chances are you did not know the Lord. Only those who accept the "gift" of faith from God will inherit eternal life. I guess I am just amazed at why people choose to place the destiny of their lives in the hands of themselves. How sad. Like it is written, there are 3 things people choose to put their faith in: themselves, religion (which you did, Catholicism is tradition and rituals), or the Bible. There is no other Book on the face of the earth that compares--historically, scientifically (remember evolution is a theory of history-not science), prophetically (300 specific prophesies have already been fulfilled). Even the Qur'ān was written 600 years after the Bible by a single man who stole the truths of Scriptures to bring glory to himself. Muslims regard the Qur'ān as a continuation of other divine messages that started with those revealed to Adam and the prophets of the Bible. One cannot ignore the Bible--though its sad very many do. Rulers and peoples and countries have tried to destroy the Bible ever since it came into print. Yet it prevails. The life and death of Christ was certainly monumental, after all, our current generation began thereafter. It is now 2007 years after his death. Faith is the only possible method of salvation for every soul on the face of the earth. He is saving lives today as he has throughout all humanity. I am merely a witness. If you are wrong--the wickedness of your soul will not be covered by the blood of the Father's Son, And wickedness cannot dwell in the prescence of a Holy God. Simply test yourself against the Ten Commandments to see if you are guilty of sin. Christ paid for the past, present, and future sins of all humanity. He was the sacrifice to God to atone for all sins. "It is finished."-Jesus Christ Now answer me this last question before our conversations come to an end--why do you choose to believe in the "worm" theory, rather than the truths of Scripture about your destiny? Will you not reconsider the Bible, instead of religion? "Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" Matt 7:22-23 P.S. Tongues is not Scriptural. For you see if you speak in tongues you are speaking the words of God Himself--and that was only given to the apostles and writers of the Bible. The canon is closed. And this is why Muhammad's extra words are not of God either.
You just fleshed it out JimHR, she says that she thought she knew the Lord, and now she says that she knows there is no Lord, therefore, since she can't claim that she ever knew the Lord, she was obviously a unauthentic Christian, who has never tasted the fruits of salvation. That adds credence to the notion of once saved always saved, and so, only unauthentic Christians can "leave the faith." Very interesting.
So you know the Lord, and everything about him? Where he came from and what his plans are for the universe? I really doubt that. Destiny is outside anyone's hands, that is why the concept is called destiny rather than "my plan for me". I don't think there is any such thing. Anything can happen anytime, that's freedom. Or we discount the idea of faith altogether. Sure there is, the Bagavad Gita, the Quran, the TaoTe Ching, the texts of Confucious, you need to get out more. No, ignorant monkey, it's science. And the bible was written 100 years after Jesus, borrowing from much older Jewish texts written by many authors. That was pretty arbitrary. The Europeans decided that, and their culture prevails. It's just a number. There is no "worm theory".
NDS: She met the Frickin Pope, I am fairly certain that counts as "baptism of the Holy Ghost". By the way, Medicine Woman: Awesome on meeting the Pope face to face. That must have been really cool, even if you are no longer a Catholic.
JimHR, IceAgeCivilizations: As you both seem to be of a Protestant persuasion and prone to underestimate the nature of Catholicism, let us discuss why this "religion" is the only true Christianity (despite the fact that I am neither). One could make the claim that Protestantism is in and of itself, Luciferian. For the same sin that the fallen angel was claimed to commit (even if we cannot find it in the Bible) was pride, and refusing to bow down to the authority of the Pope in matters of faith (as given to Peter through Jesus) is certainly a prideful act. Accordingly, Protestantism is based on rebellion and pride, and not on subordination to the will of God. It is invalid, anti-scriptural, and anti-God. Catholicism is the only Christian Church that can claim it is in fact, Biblical and true.
Do you really think so? Did you know that the Roman Catholic church didn't allow the "common people" to read the Bible for centuries, and only then after Protestantism came along, therefore your notion is ludicrous Princie.
IceAgeCivilizations: Were I a Christian, I'd be a Catholic. So yes. I do believe the doctrines of the Church over those of the Protestant sects, even if I believe in neither.
************* M*W: Thank you, PJ. I was a devout catholic at the time I met JPII in his very first audience as the newly elected pope. Interesting circumstances, though. I had planned a pilgrimage to Rome through my church in Germany. Bought and paid for the tickets over a period of several months. PPIV died and JPI was elected while I was paying for our trip. Then I was in a market when I heard of JPI's death. I thought we would be going to The Vatican without a pope being elected, but I'd hoped to see it in action. Well, lo and behold, we arrived in Rome on October 22 on the train, and our hotel was in Vatican City just down the street from St. Peter's. Seems like it was the next day after arrival of his coronation, so we went along with about 6 million others who most of them didn't make it into the audience chamber. I was totally mystified! He spoke in some 6 languages. We had aisle seats. After addressing people in those 6 languages, JPII walked down the left aisle and grabbed my left hand. As I was about to kiss his ring, he was pulled off me by others in the back. Of course, I thought at that time I had died and gone to heaven. I certainly don't regret my experience. When I returned home, I wanted to learn everything I could about catholic christianity, and I did. I just kept learning until I realized it was all bullshit. You can learn things to a point and say, "hey, this is cool, I really like it." Or you can research things down to the gritty core and say, "this is not what I believed all along." That is where I am coming from now. I studied it long enough to see that what I had originally believed wasn't true. I learned why it wasn't true, and I learned why other people could still believe it was true when it was not. I mentioned earlier about the catholic charismatic prayer groups I attended twice weekly. Some of those good people went on to become major catholic hierarchy in their home parishes, and are still going at it. As far as I can see it, they stopped learning when they reached a comfort zone, and they didn't want to give it up. I understand that. That's also where I see some of you in your comfort zones. Life goes on far beyond our comfort zones. Comfort zones are relative and subjective. We are all at different places in life's education process. Most of those places are not necessarily wrong for the particular time they occur. There is synchronicity in the universe, you just should never stop learning. Venture out of your comfortable rut. Don't be afraid that your comfortable rut is the best place you will ever be. It's not. Life goes on beyond your comfort zone. You'll know it when your comfort zone get's itchy and you're ready to move on. Don't fear it, just go with it until you reach a higher comfort zone. You may surprise yourself. I did. I truly appreciate what I had as a catholic christian, but I appreciate what I have learned and where I am now. My current comfort zone is a pretty darn comfortable and cozy place. I wish all of you could join me here.
************* M*W: As I stated earlier today, which you obviously didn't read nor understand, the printing press wasn't invented until the 1500s by Gutenberg, and then only the monks could read. The bibles that were printed were distributed only to the monks who could read and not to the common people who were illiterate (as in couldn't read). They had no printed matter which they could learn to read from. Get it? When the printing press was able to produce enough newly mistranslated, misquoted and mistranscribed bibles that were distributed to the Church, they had just enough time to read the bastardization of the grossly mistranslated bible when the Church started the Inquisition which was led by two priests (in Germany, of course) with their publication (newly printed on the newly invented printing press, of course) of The Malleus Maleficarum of Kramer and Sprenger. It was only after this time that printed material became public that was delivered by town criers (in America, at least) during the Burning Times of Salem, Massachusetts. Before the Inquisition made its way to America, it moved from Germany to Spain (i.e. the Spanish Inquisition), then on to the American Colonies. Nine million women died at the hands of christians who believed them to be brides of Satan. They did not take into account in those days the dangers of leaded paint; herbs that were not well known for healing or eating; diseases that came from animals like mad cow disease; psychological terror that came from proselytizing christians; epilepsy and other mental diseases. They all died for nothing. Nine million women who loved Jesus... died... at the hands of christian zealots... nine million women, midwives, herbal healers, medicine woman, medicine men, anyone who could take the pain away from a laboring woman was doomed to die for her association with the devil. Pain in childbirth was a god-given curse, and the woman must suffer to bring forth children, or she would die. God wanted these women to suffer, and midwives and husbands and sisters and mothers wanted to relieve their laboring mother's pain. They didn't kill the husbands. They killed the women who assisted the laboring woman in pain. They did the devil's work, and they died for it. Today obstetrical anesthesiologist makes tons of money, and they relieve the pain of women in labor. Who is out there to crucify them? No one, today. It's accepted, it's asked for, it relieves their pain. Tell me, where did the church have the right to murder women like me? Those of us who assist laboring women with our modern pain relievers? Those of us who deliver healthy babies from healthy mothers and relieve their pain while doing so are evil, according to christianity. Forgive me if I shun christianity. Nine million of my sisters, mothers, grandmothers, aunts, cousins and friends died at the hands of christianity, but they didn't get me, nine million and one.
If the "correct" epistemology is apllied to the "right" text by the "correct" authorities in the "right" way then the Bible can be interpreted in a manner that is never self-contradicting. Reality be damned!!! It's all about "correctness".....
************* M*W: He was very smart, very humane, and very spiritual. One of the greatest popes of all time. ************* M*W: English, of course, poquito Espanol, very little Portugese, and German fluently, although I haven't spoken it in years. I miss it. I was attempting to learn Hebrew and some Mandarin Chinese until lifestyle changes interrupted. ************* M*W: Although I'm not sure I understood what you said, in the long run, I don't think it matters anyway. What would we have if we changed poetry and made it generic where we all could understand it. There would be a lot lost in translation. The bible is no different. It evolved through the ages and through the translations, and the interpretations which are not standardized. I believe there is more truth in poetry than in all of the bible. Poetry is truly inspired by the spirit within.
