Body Signals Redux: Proving Mormonism

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Billy Baxter, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    So how can you be sure we're not all just thoughts in the mind of a dreaming god? That your eyes actually see what's really there in front of you?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    From Wiki....

    "Wow if nothing else the church keeps a few workers in work." My comment the following is from Wiki.


    On average, the church builds a little more than one chapel a day.[citation needed] The church built about 40 smaller temples between 1998 and 2001. There are 155 operating temples (which includes 3 previously dedicated, but closed for renovation), 12 under construction, and 10 announced (not yet under construction). (See List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.)

    Yes citation needed but one can tell they are active.

    Alex
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    quite a bit.

    Most of it goes to the poor and needy. Some goes to church-owned universities, overseas humanitarian aid, disaster victims, philanthropies, etc.

    Who should I make the check out to?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    No please do not think of sending me money, it would be a burden.
    Once I spent it I would worry that I may have found a better cause or there were more needy folk that I could have helped.

    Alex
     
  8. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    Don't worry. My tithing is miniscule compared to most--but I still get the blessings as say, a millionaire who pays 10%.
     
  9. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    670
    how can you be sure you're not on fire at this moment?
    when you can answer that point you will have your answer

    this is why philosophy isn't considered science, BTW. you can make an argument for just about anything, and that is the foundation of philosophy... however, in science, things are different and require a methodology that removes bias and promotes facts that aren't subjective (repeatable events that are the same regardless of the tester).

    see above


    do you?
    how can you be sure?
    do you have a forensic accountant that follows everyone around insuring there is a fair and just blessing from your deity?
    or is it all subjective and based upon your personal acceptance of the claim that you're getting the same blessings?

    get the point yet?
     
  10. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    Prove to me you're not just a computer responding to me online.

    Again: prove to me that you aren't just a character in a sleeping god's dream.

    bb
     
  11. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    Because Gods dont sleep, everyone knows that, so there is no dream to be part of...
    I did some sums.
    I calculate the church should be getting between 30 & 40 billion a year but they say its only 7 billion.
    I think someone is taking money. I think it should be looked into.
    Can we look into this, wherecan I inspect the books..
    Alex
     
  12. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    670
    if you can't tell by the interaction, you won't be able to tell by any other means because it refutes your delusion

    1- specify which god

    2- i can actually do this, but it requires being in person, unless you're referring to the Abrahamic religions "god". then it's just a matter of proving the legitimacy of said bible, to which all things hinge in said faith, which has been proven to be a fictitious narrative.

    2a- meeting in person - this is not something you would ever be capable of doing not only because it would undermine your delusional beliefs but because it would demonstrate the delusion you've chosen to accept as legitimately real is nothing but a false world, and as such the crashing of your beliefs could prove to be unsettling to the point of confinement due to mental duress.

    philosophy aint science, neither is religion
     
  13. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    My "delusion"? I know you exist, of course. I'm just trying to get you to see that your god (science) has limitations logically.

    bb
     
  14. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    670
    1- Science is not a god. it is a method to explain reality around you with coherent, factual unbiased repeatable validated experiments etc
    here is a very clear definition that is supported by links, references and facts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

    making the claim that Science is a religion because it answers questions is like making the claim you're a Toyota because you have a garage on your house
    science is not about belief at all. it's about facts.

    2- the only limitations science has is the unasked and the unanswered question.

    3- what you just did was attempt to assign a moral or emotional attachment to a fact. this means, by definition, you're attempting to make an objective unbiased method of gathering data and facts (science) a subjective topic based upon interpretation. that is not science at all, that is philosophy, hence my point: philosophy aint science, neither is religion

    4- there is no shame in not having an answer, either. the reason philosophy and religion exist is because humans have this huge brain failure: they want an answer. any answer. especially if it sounds good. it doesn't have to be logical (religion), nor does it have to be factual (philosophy), it only has to conform to the users biases (hence the subjectivity). in science, this is not the case: a question without an answer is simply one that hasn't been answered

    so using the god of the gaps argument means that should you assign your argument of limitations based upon your current understanding then it will forever be a receding point that forever becomes the purview of science as it answers the unanswered questions. this is typical in religion and philosophy both. it is also demonstrated through history, from gravity to evolution

    EDIT: addendum

    yes, your delusion
    see above for explanation
     
    Dr_Toad likes this.
  15. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    I interact with God on a daily basis; He is more real to me than you are.
    Delusion? Not likely.

    bb
     
  16. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    670
    then prove it
    can you provide empirical evidence that meets or exceeds the mandate for unbiased evidence per the scientific method?
    this would also require evidence from a secondary non-related source for validation

    combine the two and present them

    the reason it is considered a delusion is because your argument can't be proven to anyone that isn't willing to suspend reality and critical thinking to accept your comments on faith, which is literally the belief in something regardless of, or completely without, evidence.

    this is the exact same thing as certain mental illnesses: you may well believe it and it may well be real for you, but just because you believe it doesn't mean it is true

    and this is a common argument among most mental illness patients
    see above
     
  17. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    i know you are, but what am i?

    bb
     
  18. Truck Captain Stumpy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    670
    so... you want discourse unless it specifically undermines or demonstrates the delusional behaviour you're displaying?
    and in response you completely ignore the facts so you can post some irrational immature statement...

    is that about it?

    so, in other words, you are validating my points regarding your behaviour and rationality

    thanks for proving me correct. i appreciate it

    should you have more time to answer some questions in a poll for people like yourself, let me know.
    it involves a study into irrational and delusional mindsets where the religious, conspiracist, political, pseudoscience and other ideologies overwhelm rational thought

    you can remain anonymous but that would mean no payment when the authorization comes through, just FYI
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    Hi Billy,
    You may risk critisism if you answer, but I am sincerely interested, my question which is.. How does this interaction take place as you perceive.
    Is it a feeling you are not alone or do you hear God speak to you?Do you pray and feel things turn out as you asked God for it to happen. Is it a voice you hear or an imagination type of thing.
    You seem like a decent chap and I am interested to know how it works in practice for you.
    Say you expect a hard day at work with difficult problems do you pray for it to work out or does God talk you through the day.
    I will understand if you find my enquirey too personal but I would like a picture of the daily interaction you mention.
    Alex
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    Truck Captain Stumpy likes this.
  20. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    not interested, thanks

    bb
     
  21. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    It's mostly with thoughts, feelings and impressions. And of course the ever-present body signals. I don't want to get too personal on a public message board.

    bb
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,919
    Thanks Billy I had entirely forgotten the body signals which is what this thread was all about.
    Alex
     
  23. Billy Baxter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    102
    yw
     

Share This Page