Brexit: Parliament Suspended

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    586
    That is total rubbish and just as bad as people thinking we have a US style president.

    https://theconversation.com/nine-things-you-should-know-about-a-potential-australian-republic-89759
     
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,397
    Thankyou for your kind feedback.

    Would you care to educate me as to which parts are "total rubbish"?

    Thanks so much.
     
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  5. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,226
    The next instalment of our wonderful Netflix-produced Parliamentary drama called “Brexit: WTF?” is to see how our intrepid PM can both obey the law (as he has said he will) while at the same time not doing what the law requires of him, (he has said we are leaving 31st October “do or die”).
    Does he have the superpowers of the famed Quantum Man, able to be in a superposition of both obeying and not obeying the law (at least until someone looks at him and ruins the illusion)?
    Or is he just talking a good game but will ultimately capitulate in the face of overwhelming legality, and surrender to the Surrender Act?

    Stay tuned to find out!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    thankfully British government is not a dictatorship

    The orchestra of Parliament is sounding like an old tin rubbish bin being slowly run over by a tram as it grinds it down the rails and mashes it into the wheels.

    Will the swan songs of sane democracy be the klaxons call to throw all the family silver under the tram to soften the noise ?
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,882
    Reconciling "sane democracy" with a "House of Lords" is an even more problematic proposition than the point of monarchy.
     
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  9. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447


    crossing the pond for comparison
    UK royalty is not above the law
    unlike USA politicians
     
  10. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    586
    http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s61.html
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    my two pound bags of donut holes should not be penilised when your sausage enters my market.

    it is our job to lubricate the market
    not to give free access to sausage
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    we demand government lubrication of our sausage business

    we demand inspections of your donut holes when ever we like

    who is going to pay for my free lunch while i am lubricating foreign sausage business ?
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882

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    The headline for Orla Barry↱, at PRI, runs, "With Brexit looming, calls for Scottish independence grow":

    When campaigning started around 2012, only about 27% of voters said they would vote yes in the referendum. But by the time the referendum was held in 2014, many had changed their minds—although not enough to change Scotland's future.

    A majority of the voters—55%—said no to the question, "Should Scotland be an independent country?," and chose to remain part of the UK. At the time, many politicians told Scottish voters it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Five years later, in 2019, that referendum looks likely to get a second run.

    And the chances of an independent Scotland this time around might be greater. Two-thirds of the Scottish electorate voted against Brexit in 2016. For some, all the turmoil in Westminster over the last three years has cemented their view that Scotland would be better off looking after its own affairs.

    For those across the Pond, it's a really weird picture, very nearly utterly British, with the independence advocate saying obvious things, like, "Most people in Scotland, I think, have looked on in horror at what's happened", which could turn out to be utterly wrong, but still qualifies as a safe political statement. And, come on, "I believe that an independent Scotland would be a happier, healthier and more prosperous country", is an easy general pitch. And the argument against doesn't so much read as crazy, but, rather, resigned unto its frailty in that way British folk can be:

    Struan Stevenson, chief executive of Scottish Business UK, a group of businesses who oppose the idea of an independent Scotland, said Brexit is already damaging enough for Scotland.

    "Can you imagine if Scotland was to cut itself off from its main trading partner, England and the rest of the UK? Business and industry would just wither on the vine," said Stevenson, who is also a former member of the European Parliament.

    "The pound is spiraling downwards against the euro and the dollar," he added.

    Shortages—of food and medicine—would also become likely in a no-deal Brexit, according to a government-leaked report, Operation Yellowhammer, which detailed how patients would have to wait longer for their medication, and fresh food would become harder to obtain.

    "We may have to put the military and the police on the streets to stop civil unrest," Stevenson said.

    "It's a gift to the nationalists in Scotland who say we could avoid all this by becoming an independent nation," he added.

    Meanwhile, as the report continues, polling "has risen to close to 50%", and presents a Green Party city councillor who has changed her mind to support independence; and,of course, there are 200,000 EU citizens to account for, and some of them are demanding a voice in the Scottish independence campaign—

    One of its members is Ellen Höfer, who's originally from Germany but has lived in Scotland for 12 years. She said half of her European friends have already left the UK. For Höfer, Brexit has been a driving factor in her decision to campaign for Scottish independence. "I don't wish to be part of a country that is becoming increasingly xenophobic," she said.

    "After the Brexit referendum, EU citizens had to really confront themselves with what sort of place they live in. For me, that struggle was about deciding whether I was going to fight against Brexit or whether I was going to fight for Scottish independence," Höfer added.

    —and, y'know, sure, we can try to see merit in some aspect of both sides, but what it comes down to really does look like, "No, this is an internal affair", compared to, "Yeah, well, 200,000 of us makes us economically significant, so figure out what you're going to do about whatever, because we have decisions to make, too."

    And while a prior leader of the Scottish independence effort will not step up and lead the present discussion, for having failed last time, there is still Mr. Stevenson and the businesslike argument to remain part of a brexited United Kingdom:

    Stevenson, CEO of Scottish Business UK, said he dreads the thought of another independence referendum. "I think that would be the biggest mistake of all," he said. "We've had such a successful partnership for more than 300 years with the rest of the UK. If it ain't broke, why try and fix it," he added.

    Compared to the line coming from BBC↱ in the last while, it's not reassuring:

    The future of Boris Johnson's Brexit deal hangs in the balance as EU officials say the outcome of talks should be known by the end of the day.

    The EU's Donald Tusk said he would have "bet" on a deal 24 hours ago, but "doubts" had appeared on the UK side.

    The PM is trying to get Tory Brexiteers and Democratic Unionists on board for his revised plan for Northern Ireland.

    Likening talks to climbing Everest, Mr Johnson said the summit was "not far" but still surrounded by "cloud".

    He is in a race against time to get a deal before Thursday's crucial EU council meeting.

    The BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said she understood the issues between the UK, EU and Ireland were "pretty much sorted", but it was still not clear whether the Northern Irish DUP were ready to sign up or not.

    The question does seem reasonable: If it ain't broke, sure, but what is about to break, because what, really, is a contempt finding compared to a crash brexit? That is, sure, the Guardian report was last week, but—

    Pro-remain campaigners are preparing to launch contempt proceedings against Boris Johnson if he attempts to renege on promises to seek an extension to Brexit.

    Jolyon Maugham QC has sought legal advice on starting court proceedings for contempt next week in the Scottish courts, after senior judges in Edinburgh delayed a decision on ordering the prime minister to comply with the Benn act.

    Lord Carloway, Scotland's most senior judge, has already cleared time for an emergency hearing in the court of session at noon on Monday 21 October, where he could issue court orders forcing Johnson to send a letter to the EU asking for an extension to article 50 until 31 January.

    —it still feels, from this side, as if the Prime Minister is determined to crash out, and in that sense, the question of what ain't broke speaks nothing of the British Empire crash-landing on one's economy in a little over a fortnight.

    Good luck, Edinburgh; Brexits come and go, but Scotland is forever.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Barry, Orla. "With Brexit looming, calls for Scottish independence grow". The World. 15 October 2019. PRI.org. 16 October 2019. http://bit.ly/2OSGyGx

    British Broadcasting Corporation. "Brexit: PM meets cabinet and DUP as Brussels talks continue". BBC News. 16 October 2019. BBC.com. 16 October 2019. https://bbc.in/2IYhjPj

    Carrell, Severin. "PM may face contempt proceedings if he fails to adhere to Benn act". The Guardian. 9 October 2019. TheGuardian.com. 16 October 2019. http://bit.ly/2IWTibz
     
  14. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,451
    Not if you understand who is a member and what it does.

    In fact the Lords often makes a great deal more sense than the Commons, which is not surprising, as its members do not need to constantly seek re-election and most of them are not any longer climbing the greasy pole of their careers. I recommend listening to a Lords debate, once or twice, before you dismiss its value.
     
  15. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,226
    Okay, time for an update.
    Boris managed to convince the EU that a deal potentially worse for the UK than Theresa May’s deal is something they should accept... and they did.
    Thinking the PM could still slip the UK into the mire of a no-deal exit even once/if the Commons approve the deal, they have sought to thwart that approach by agreeing to delay approval until the legislation for what they don’t yet know will even be approved is completed (this known as the Letwin amendment, which doesn’t sound quite as good as the Quiller Memorandum).
    Which meant that the PM had to abide by the Benn Act and send a letter to the EU to request an extension.
    Which he did.
    Without signing it.
    And also sent another letter, this one signed, saying why he didn’t think they should grant an extension, that thing he just asked for in the first letter.
    And there was also a covering letter, presumably asking if they had all had a nice holiday, and commenting how much better Angela looked now that she wasn’t shaking all the time, that sort of thing.

    So now we sit and wait for the next few days while the Speaker of the House John “Oordeeeeer” Bercow decides when to give Parliament a meaningful vote on the matter, which might only be after he has allowed sufficient time for enough amendments to be added to sink the last remaining tug-boats of hope.

    If the EU are gracious enough in their infinite wisdom and mercy to allow us a few paltry months to kick the can further down the road, there might perhaps then be a new government in place, a new round of negotiations starting from scratch, another referendum after more months of wrangling over the specific question(s) to be asked, and maybe, just maybe, by the time we get all this sorted out, there may still be some people alive who even remember the original referendum.

    And all this while Sturgeon and her army slowly dig the trench between England and Scotland that bit deeper, until a hammer onto a well-placed chisel will finally separate us and send Scotland floating off into the sunset amid eternal promises of wealth and happiness.

    So we wait.
    The politicians continue to do their politicking.
    The people continue to despair, either ‘cos they just want this done and dusted, or ‘cos they still can’t fathom why people got such an easy question wrong in the first place.
    (I mean, the voting slip didn’t even need you to put your name!)
    And there are just 10 more days PE (plus extension) until all this is finally resolved.
     
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  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    Tea on the lorn in front of the horrible poor people will show them whats happening



    Countdown clock to illuminate Downing Street on Brexit Day(and tougher sentences for geography teachers)
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51149538

    charging the tax payer for gilted bunting to announce something they will be told on telly and has been widely advertised for several months ...



    "many things must be done, but nothing for the first time"
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020

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