Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by seekeroftheway, Mar 14, 2006.
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About Bruce Lee movies
How can you say Bruce Lee's movies sucked? you are the first person i see who says that,if you don't like his movies,that's ok but don't be saying they suck,that's your personal opinion,not from everyone.
As part of Freedom of Speech, he can voice his opinion. I may not like what people say, but ill defend their right to say it.:m:
Because his body fat was lover than 3%...it caused something in the brain, well he died...
I read the first two pages and couldn't read anymore.
To the theorists that speculate that he used cocaine regularly...sorry, but he would not have gotten to where he was by being a heavy cocaine user. While coke makes you alert, Bruce's discipline and dedication could not have been achieve from heavy use of coke. Sorry. Try again.
That's entirely feasible, dragon. The brain does need a certain amount of fat to survive.
I've heard that he died of a brain annurism. Who knows.
Whatever the cause, both his and Brandon's deaths are complete tragedies.
Jim Morrison has said, 'it's better to burn out than fade away' and Bruce definitely fits into that category.
totally agree wth you..... That total madness to say the least that he took cocaine or OD of the substance there no evidence to say that and i really dont believe he did. Im a massive fan of his films especially Enter The Dragon great movie. Bruce had suffered a serious brain trauma only two months before he died, so a weakness was already present. One talented enemy with the knowledge and the will, or 'by ninja poisoners using cannabis, or by Shaolin monks who were 'upset' with bruce and used the delayed death touch known as dim mak. secret death touch by unknown assassins. Dim mak (death touch) is perhaps the ultimate expression of bil jee (stabbing fingers), whereby massive amounts of energy may be transferred to an opponent, sometimes with only minium of actual contact. The technique itself extends far beyond the physical realm. Dr Wu was of the opinion that the verdict should be that the cause of death was due to hypersensitivity to Equagesic or cannabis. As the cause of death was not clear and cannabis was present, realistically, this conclusion couldnt be denied. The official verdict, however, named only Equagesic as the presumed cause. Professor Teare was a forensic scientist recommended by scotland yard, he was brought in as the expert on cannabis and we contradict his testimony. The dosage of cannabis is neither precise nor predictable, but he said he never known anyone dying simply from taking it. Bruce explained: If you always put limits on yourself and what you can do, physical or anything, you might as well be dead. It will spread over into your work, your morality, your entire being. There are no limits, only plateaux. But you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you.
Someone told me he became so strong and dangerous that the mafia decided to get rid of him.
TC7 up is talking out of sense and knowledge people.. take heed of him(/her).. there aint any medicine in the first collapse Bruce suffered; although we couldnt know who's responsible, long term poisining is a better and more possible explanation than the official one (allergic R t equagesic or weed)..
cocaine using claim is absurd bcs of allready mentioned reasons..
and i agree we should talk about his philosophy, weltanschauung, theachings etc..
The ignorance which is held within this thread is disheartening, Bruce Lee or Lee Jun Fan openly degrades drugs because it keeps you from your potential. At the level he was functioning it is physically impossible to be in any drug and function to that capacity both functionally and mentally. To even ponder on the idea of such a thing tarnishes this great man's legacy. And all these left wing conspiracy theorists are absolutely ridiculous. Trying to turn his death into something that was as big as he was. Unfortunately it wasn't. He died from an acute cerebral edema due to an allergic reaction to Pennicilin.
Bruce Lee's Death
I have parts of the autopsy report and coroner's inquest and the original cause of death was cannabis intoxication that resulted in a hypersensitivity. No massive overdose. As for the Equagesic (the painkiller) he took, that was not the cause. Dr. R. R. Lycette was the pathologist who conducted the post-mortem at Queen Elizabeth's hospital morgue on July 23, 1973. No heavy metals (lead, mercury) and no organic drugs were found in his bloodsteam and body organs. I have the toxicology results. On one note, Lycette was in question about the post-mortem appearance and clinical findings; could there be another toxic substance in his bloodstream that he could have overlooked during post-mortem examaination? This is one question that will never be answered by anyone if it's even pertainent.
Bruce was taking a very exotic and potent strain of cannabis and hashish from Nepal. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu saved his life on May 10th and that's all that was present in his body, which caused the first edema. They pumped his stomach and a good amount of cannabis came out. The vomiting stopped after the stomach was free of it. The other symptoms they got control of, so Lee's life was saved with a Manitol drip and cortisone shot to counter glucose shock. Both doctors knew a great deal about it, where Western doctors were clueless.
Bruce had a low tolerance to drugs and he was a sensitive man. His body weight was 126 lbs. in May of 1973 and he was under a lot of stress. By late July, his weight was 122 lbs. and he literally had no body fat left. It helps buffer the reactions to drugs. Incidentally, the unrefined cannabis Bruce did was very expensive, too. The average person couldn't afford to buy it. Cannabis poisoning is rare, but it does happen. The strains grown in Southeast Asia are the strongest. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu had the medical evidence correctly established. Bruce thought he was an expert on everything. Unfortunately, he wasn't an expert on drugs. He would eat the cannabis and it's more dangerous when it's consumed that way. Lee would suck on the resin-coated leafs, so the chemicals would go into his brain full-strength. He'd then swallow the leafs into the stomach. Cannabis contains seven alkaloids and 400 chemicals that make it up. Lee was hypersensitive to one of more of the alkaloids in the cannabis.
Bruce had taken the anti-anxiety medication named Miltown in early 1973; in fact he was tested for any allergies and the results were negative to the main ingredient, which is found in Equagesic. This non-prescription painkiller was used at the coroner's inquest to go against Lee's doctors, so the Hong Kong government and Scotland Yard could cover up the real cause of death. And they did.
Some people may wonder why Lee's death is talked about so much many years later. Had they told the truth 38 years ago and that would not have occured. I'd like to discuss with TC7 in private when he comes back here someday.
I'm a big fan of Bruce Lee and I think your explanation makes a lot of sense, Rick. Tell me, are you able to post the reports you have, or would this be illegal and breach confidentiality?
I think it's quite well established that Bruce had been chewing cannabis to help relieve the high levels of stress that he was under. I'm not a medical man, but it certainly makes sense to me that cannabis was the cause of death if it was also detected in his body following his May 10th collapse. It also makes sense to me that his body's tolerance of drugs might be quite low, given his otherwise very clean and fitness oriented lifestyle.
With regard to your comment of "Bruce thought he was an expert on everything", this is certainly not the impression I have had from reading his books or listening to people speak who knew him well (people like Linda Lee and Dan Inosanto). Having said that, given who he had become, a certain level of arrogance could certainly have been a possibility I suppose. It strikes me that the reason why he would have chosen to chew cannabis as oppose to smoke it, would be that he would have considered smoking it to have been of too significant damage to his lungs / aerobic system.
Why would the HK government and Scotland Yard wish to cover this up? Besides the fact that the cause of death on the coroner's inquest report was at some point changed, is there any other evidence indicating HKG / Scotland Yard covered this up?
I'm surprised such a high percentage of this forum knew Bruce Lee, or knew someone who knew him.
Any other forum and they would be laughed at.
In 1973, Hong Kong was under the ownership of the British Commonwealth. Lee's death from cannabis was a shock and the first time it happened to a star in the Asian film industry. The whole world was watching Hong Kong and waiting for the final verdict. Both HK and the Brits were afraid a cannabis and hashish epidemic would break out among the young fans who idolized Bruce. This was one reason why the verdict at the coroner's inquest was changed from "death by cannabis poisoning" to "death by misadventure." The inquest was public and 4 days long. Lee's doctors were furious at the change in verdict. By the way, the coroner, Ebert Tung, really wasn't a coroner. He was a lawyer who presided the inquest, who made the final verdict. They had it all staged to cover up. Dr. Langford and Dr. Wu were ingored by the HK media, as all they wanted to do was exploit Bruce.
Ten years later, Albert Goldman contacted them and got the truth, but his 1983 article for Penthouse had some literary license that was less than truthful in some areas. Later, it was George Tan and Davis Miller who contacted Langford and Wu. You can get a good amount of correct information on George Tan's 1993 documentary "Death By Misadventure." He and Miller revised the film in 2003 for DVD release. It does contain one of the B&W morgue photos of Lee from 7/23, that was stolen by someone who worked in the coroner's office in Hong Kong. Two of them were lifted, so the public could see that Lee was no longer among the living, among rumors that he faked his death.
Of course, Linda, Chow, Dr. Chu and Betty lied under oath about what happened in her apartment on July 20th. I don't need any documents to figure that out. They fished out the official version that Bruce went to lay down and Betty was in the living room. They were together and Betty saw Bruce die on her bed. What a nightmare for a young lady who was only 25.
Bruce was backed by two life insurance companies and he was not to be taking any illegal drugs. Had they found out he was and insurance payouts to his family would have been affected. That was another reason for the change in verdict at the inquest. The third reason was his image to be kept clean. Bruce was a good person, but his family had made him so sanitized after his death. He had his dark side, just like anyone else and wasn't perfect.
Before Hong Kong was given back to China in 1997, Lee's records were public record. Anyone could fly there and obtain copies of them. What I have, others do, too. As far as making them public, I prefer not to. In my mind, I respect Bruce's privacy.
Uh....hooey. If Bruce Lee died from cannabis he became the first death from that in the entirety of recorded human history - that's about 11,000 years of human experience with cannabis without a single death now.
The active ingredients in cannabis are extremely similar in both form and function to a class of naturally occurring chemicals normally produced in the human body called "endocannabanoids". Anandamide is one such. If you were to be somehow allergic to or harmed by cannabis than you will be killed off by your own body's naturally occurring endocannabanoids long before you were old enough to consume cannabis. You would have been pretty miserable until you died that way too, as your body is peppered with CB 1 and CB 2 receptors that govern everything from pain perception and balance to sexual ability.
The claim that Mr Lee died from 'cannabis poisoning' is extraordinary and thus requires extraordinary proof. Unless and until you post up that proof, I am calling "bullshit". This calls the accuracy of the balance of your statements into question as well.
Secondly (and peripherally I might add) there is indeed such a thing as the Dim Mak "death touch", also referred to as the "poison hand" or the "poison touch". It is a knife hand strike to the front of the throat at the carotid artery on an adjacent nerve trunk nexus. The strike has the immediate effect of 'resetting' your blood pressure, which makes you pass out. It also often loosens or dislodges a small bit of arterial plaque if there is any at all present in said artery, sending that into the brain causing a stroke. It is said that this strike can kill within 24 hours.
The death touch is part of the arsenal repertoire of many accomplished martial artists, though I have never seen anyone actually use it as it is meant to kill, not just to win a fight.
Mr Lee's distillation of classic Shaolin Gung Fu and his constant expression of Wing Chung's Buddhist principles make him a very important personage in the history of the martial arts. His development of Jeet Kun Do along those principles was a major contribution as well. He expressed this philosophy very well in Enter the Dragon and in some of his other works as well.
The martial arts community has accepted that he died from cerebral edema, an allergic reaction to the pain med. Black Belt magazine has run countless articles on Mr Lee and his passing, check their archives if you need more. The rest is the kind of rumor that accompanies fame and the sudden death of a famous person.
Each to his own
That's all I have to say to you about it. As for the death strike, you should try it on someone and see if it works and end up serving time in prison. That's what I classify as "extraordinary bullshit."
There also the possibility of initiating 'commotio cordis' with a strike to the chest, coinciding with the ascension of the final 'bump' you see in a heartbeat diagram.
If it wasn't the alkaloids, than it could have been herbal poisoning in the form of pesticides on the cannabis used at random. All plants are sprayed with them. Certainly a strong possibility and it wouldn't be detected in the body. The supplier is still alive and well. His name is known, but kept hushed as legal action could ensue if it was revealed.
I don't know that you notice it, but your hypothesis seems unfalsifiable. :shrug: Since this is a science site, I would normally assume that you understand what that means. Since you are obviously unfamiliar with Sagan's Rule ("Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs.") than I cannot do that here. All I can tell you is that your hypothesis is false.
Unless you can come up with something to back up what appears very much to be unsupported idle speculation I urge you to reconsider insulting the deceased Mr Lee in this manner.
Yes, a standard JKD vertical punch to the solar plexus would be equally effective, and likely much quicker as well.
I appreciate the comment re this being the "first death from that in the entirety of recorded human history - that's about 11,000 year". How do you explain Bruce's May 10th episode, given that the doctor involved on that occasion has openly remarked that cannabis was the likely cause (see Death by Misadventure documentary)? Also, how do you respond to the comment that Bruce was consuming particuarly potent strains of cannabis, unavailable to most average users. Do you consider this unfounded speculation?
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