Buddha1 is Wrong about Sexuality.

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Fafnir665, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    And here is how Darwinism inspires scientists to suppress data about same sex behaviour (a rampant problem)"



    Intellectual worries run even deeper, perhaps. After all, homosexuality seems to be a clear non-starter from a Darwinian perspective. Why waste time in same-sex relationships when you could be making babies? Evolutionary theory measures success in the currency of genes: animals are supposed to be machines intent on spreading theirs around. "Researchers find male-male or female-female sexual interactions theoretically difficult to deal with," says Wolfe. "On the face of it, sociobiological theory says it can't happen.

    "No wonder then that putative gay sex among animals is typically explained away as examples of play, mistaken identity or an exercise in power. Indeed, some researchers, notably Tim Clutton-Brock of the University of Cambridge, would say that "true" homosexuality--if strictly defined as male anal penetration by males who show no interest in females--is virtually unknown among wild mammals. They argue that animals who mount same-sex partners and the like are behaving aggressively or merely practising for heterosexual encounters. Or they may be advertising their availability, or trying to make a heterosexual partner jealous.
     
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  3. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    uch ideas can provoke outrage, however. "Some primatologists want to deny that homosexual behaviour has anything to do with pleasure. There is a streak of puritanism running thorough American primatology that says a behaviour can't exist just for sexual pleasure," she says. "At a conference in Madison some three years ago, I raised this idea and got drummed out of the room." Her scandalised colleagues rubbished the idea with remarks such as: "Well, if that was the case we'd all be in the aisle now having sex," she recalls.
     
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  5. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    You're more than welcome to go and look for book reviews if you want, but as far as I know they aren't available online. You could maybe visit a university and see if they could provide you with the information you require.
    I did not ask you to retrieve a book review, I stated that is what you're referring to, and telling me I should find, not peer reviewed studies.
     
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  7. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    ANOTHER SCIENTIST PAUL VASEY

    But in any case, homosexuality doesn't have to be adaptive in a strict genetic sense to be a real phenomenon, argues Bagemihl. "Researchers have been blinded by the prevailing preoccupation to find adaptive explanations for every behaviour," agrees Vasey. He spent his doctoral years hunting in vain for evidence to support such explanations for the sexual proclivities of female Japanese macaques. For instance, the females do not use sex to test or establish dominance ranks or to form social bonds; they form a liaison, and when it is over, they act as though it never happened.

    Even the favourite explanation--a shortage of male attention--fails to stand up to scrutiny. In one group Vasey observed, lots of females lived with just one male. "Even in that skewed situation, that one male was not very busy. By and large the females were more interested in other females--they're bisexual, not preferentially heterosexual," he says.
     
  8. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    t will take a long time before such ideas reach the mainstream. But Vasey sees Bagemihl's "exhaustively and meticulously researched" book as a watershed. "His work will make it increasingly difficult for anyone to write off the whole idea of homosexuality in animals."
     
  9. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    The fact that one study has proven one troup of macaques to be bi-sexual does not prove that 95% of all males, in every species are homosexual. Do not start claiming that homsexual is a misleading term as we have been over this and I will happily ignore any rant you start on it. It is very simple, homo means same, sexual means attracted to and partakes in sexual intercourse with. Therefore, homosexual means someone or something which is attracted to and partakes in sexual intercourse with someone or something of the same sex/gender as themselves. Therefore, a homosexual stallion would have no interest in mares, they would purely be attracted to and engage in sexual acts with other such stallions.
    There is no other way around it, no thing about bonding, or emotional attachment, it is simply about attraction and sexual acts.
     
  10. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    If you're a part of the vested interest group, nothing will suffice to you. I could make you stand in front of a group of males having sex with each other and you'll just pass it off with an excuse. Actually that is what scientists have been doing too.

    That's why I repeat, people like you should be kicked in the butt.

    Here's a case in point......

    Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

    The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

    "The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

    (source: National Geography News)
     
  11. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    Contd.:

    Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

    She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another femaleā€”if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."
     
  12. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    Contd.:

    On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

    Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."
     
  13. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    There you go again, you continue to discuss the macaques, when I have said very clearly that there is no denying that the females in that troup were bisexual.
    However, that can not be used to prove that 95% of all males, in all species are homosexual.
     
  14. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    Oh, so now we are jumping from animals to humans. Are we through with the animals as yet? What about all the horses that you know so well about......and this fucking professor of yours? Where is all the information to the contrary?
     
  15. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    Do not swear, and where in all of that did I say humans?
    Now you are putting words in my mouth, well done.
    If you actually read what I said you will find that I said
    .

    Every species, not humans.
    Don't jump to conclusions, read things thoroughly and don't curse me.
    I have provided you with a study, with at least 10 references you can research on the topic of horses and their sexual orientation.
     
  16. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    3,219
    Here are the credentials and credibility of Paul Vasey:

    Scientist in Demand in Three Countries

    FROM DECEMBER 2002 LEGEND

    By Murray Slough

    Dr. Paul Vasey, a behavioural scientist in The University of Lethbridge's Department of Psychology and Neuroscience, is embarking on a tour of three countries that will last from December through March.

    Vasey's knowledge and expertise on non-conceptive sexual behaviour (sex not for reproduction) in the animal kingdom is in demand from organizations such as the National Geographic Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) and the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research (CIAR).

    (source: University of Lethbridge )
     
  17. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    Funny, I don't remember asking for his credentials.
     
  18. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    I'd also like to add, that research study showed FEMALE macaques to be engaging in sexual acts, not males.
    So, we're back again to my point, which you ignored,
    How does that study show that 95% of males, in all species are homosexual?
     
  19. draqon Banned Banned

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  20. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    They didn't study the males, they studied the females. The males live in their own group away from the females. Now its anybody's guess how they fulfill their sexual desires.

    Bruce Bagemihl has painstakingly put together the work of other scientists to show that 90% to 100% of mammalian males have sex with each other.

    You have to disprove that. Get me a peer-reviewed paper that says that it is not true.
     
  21. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    Right, so why did you show me the paper with the Female macaques? When the debate is over the sexuality of MALES! So what relevance is a paper concerning females?

    Exactly, it is completely irrelevant, but it is the only paper you can find, so you have shown it in the hope it will back up your theory.
     
  22. Buddha1 Registered Senior Member

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    No it was not completely irrelvant you fool! I wonder if you are educated at all. You were going on and on about Bruce Bagemihl being the only one who is talking about large scale homosexuality amongst animals.

    If females can do it, what prevents the males from doing it or needing it?

    I am still waiting for you to get me the paper that says:

    - mammalian males don't have 90% to 100% same sex activities.

    - one scientists accredited work can be discounted because more scientists have not worked on those lines.

    I'm waiting.
     
  23. Lil Light Foot Just a fuzzy lil Fyre ball. Registered Senior Member

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    284
    You can carry on waiting.
    The fact that a small group of females engage in homsexual acts does not under any circumstances prove the fact that males are, especially in such huge numbers.



    Yes, very scientific, that sounds like something a small child would say.
    Again, you are calling me a fool, when all you have shown is that you can curse, you can recite a single person's study, you can twist words, and go around in circles. I haven't said he's the only one at all, I have merely said that he's the only one you have provided.
     

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